🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <9cmr7a$mv7$3@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>,
 Dan Alt <dan@prozac.eeap.cwru.edu> wrote:

> David Zinkin <dzinkin2@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> : In article <9clcad$amd$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>,
> :  Dan Alt <dan@prozac.eeap.cwru.edu> wrote:
> 
> :> John Martin <martin@fafnir.astr.cwru.edu> wrote:
> :> : conspiracy."  What exactly is this immovable force Dan?  I'd like to
> :> : know who this foe you fear so much is that you won't name them.
> :> 
> :> 	Now you're making me out to sound like Dave Zinkin.. :)
> 
> : Doesn't it just enrage you to know that I've been vindicated time and 
> : time again, Dan?
> 
> 	Now that you mention it, no.

The question was rhetorical.  I didn't expect you to actually summon the 
courage to admit that I've been right all along.

> : Clearly it would be too painful for you to publicly admit that I was 
> : right, and you and your accomplices were wrong, all these years.
> 
> 	This would be funny, if I didn't know you were
> serious.  I have no accomplices.

You may not now... but you did when it mattered.  Shall I forward you a 
copy of the "CWRUgen Awards" and see if any of the names ring a bell?

> I still wouldn't know who the hell you were if I saw you in public.  
> I have never interacted with you in any way other than on this 
> buletin board.

That didn't keep you from slamming me for daring to criticize CWRU's 
faculty.

> : Don't worry... I won't force you to do the right thing.  God knows 
> : most of the CWRUgenners of my time didn't care about the difference 
> : between right and wrong -- assuming that they knew the difference 
> : to begin with.
> 
> There are no great "Right and Wrong" issues involved in posting
> on cwru.gen.

I beg to differ, and I have the infamous chem department debate archived 
to prove it.  But then, I've actually paid attention and tried to fix 
some of the problems at CWRU, while you've basically decided that 
there's nothing you can do, so why even try?

> I will be the first person to admit that this board is completely 
> meaningless, except as a mildly amusing diversion.

Funny; the professors whose blatantly unfair tactics I exposed on this 
group didn't seem to think it was meaningless.  One physics professor 
screamed at me because I dared to tell everyone about the time when he 
took 25 points off my lab report because, in his words, "I felt like 
it."  A chemistry instructor flew off the handle at me because I 
revealed that he let his teaching assistants run the labs even when he 
knew that the teaching assistants were incompetent.

Cockroaches hate light -- especially when the cockroaches in question 
have tenure. :-)

> :> 	I don't think there's a conspiracy of people going out of there
> :> way to make life bad.  Fearless Leader isn't in the back room sending
> :> out Boris and Natasha to poison the food, unstock the vending machine,
> :> and change the blueprints for the Lewis building.
> 
> : That doesn't describe all of the administrators and faculty, to be sure 
> : -- and I've never said otherwise.  But there are just enough people who 
> : fit that description to poison the entire CWRU atmosphere.
> 
> Which description?  Short, Russian accent, wears trench coat and 
> fedora, with sinister mustache?	 Or tall, with slinky dress and 
> cigarette holder.  (and Russian accent)  Or did you mean Fearless 
> Leader himself?

As you well know, I was referring to the "people going out of their way 
to make life bad."  The CHEM 301 professor I discussed in an earlier 
post fit that description perfectly, as would the food service rep I've 
also discussed.  Does it amount to a conspiracy?  No; that would assume 
that these people are smart enough to organize.  But whether they mean 
to act collectively or not, the combined effect is as noxious as the hot 
air coming from the average CWRU dean.

I do have to say, however, that I love how you go out of your way to 
avoid being taken seriously.  Perhaps it explains why you're having a 
recruitment problem; I can certainly see how students, after listening 
to a recruitment coordinator who doesn't take anything seriously, can 
reasonably conclude in turn that CWRU doesn't take music seriously.

> :> 	Rather there is an institutional mindset that the students are 
> :> fundamentally unimportant except as revenue sources.  This mindset
> :> permeates most levels of the adminstrative side of the school.
> 
> : And it comes directly from the people described above.
> 
> Mob psychology is a facinating field.  One of the things you learn is 
> that the mindset of a group is not necessarily directly related to the 
> individual mindset of any of its members.

"Necessarily" is the key word here.  And you can read all the books you 
want; I've also studied psychology, and I have real-life experience 
dealing with the people who cause the group mindset at CWRU.

However, in this case I think you've also hit on another key point, if 
inadvertently.  The mob could learn a few things about intimidation and 
dishonesty from CWRU.

> :> 	You CAN'T do anything about it.  But feel free to try.
> 
> : You can if enough people care.  Unfortunately, CWRU teaches students not 
> : to care about anyone, or anything, but themselves -- because that's 
> : exactly how the administrators and professors act.  Thankfully, unlike 
> : most CWRUgenners, I didn't succumb.
> 
> Congratulations on achieving a personal victory.  That sort of success
> is certainly possible.

And difficult, considering how hard CWRU officials work to keep students 
from having ANY sort of victory.

> I meant that you can't change the institutional mindset.

You can't if you don't try.  I have yet to see most of CWRU's students 
make a tangible attempt.

> : others from a similar fate.  I'm proud of the fact that I've personally 
> : talked at least two hundred people out of attending CWRU; even if the 
> : school doesn't know the difference, those two hundred people will.
> 
> It's certainly been awkward for me this year as recruitment 
> coordinator for the music department.  I've learned to stick with the 
> facts and make absolutely no comparisons to other schools in my 
> presentation.

I stick with the facts as well, but thankfully I'm under no obligation 
to avoid comparing CWRU to other schools.  What better way is there to 
keep people away from CWRU than to steer them toward schools that 
actually do care about teaching and don't go after people who dare to 
have their own opinions?

 -- DZ