🚀 go-pugleaf

Brian Ebarb (ebarb@airmail.net) wrote:
: Whine, whine, whine. Do you really think 'our universities planned such 
: a thing on purpose'? Isn't our thinking a bit conspiracist? I understand 
: that it is the job of the latest/greatest generation to question 
: everything, but really -- your assertion is pretty goofy.

To you, we may be whineing - however, to many of us there remain
many important issues that remain to reolved.  We don't intend to sit
by and let them be decided - without providing our input, further, we're
not going to wait to be asked for our input.

: Since you're chasing a BS in computer science, I'll take the leap and 
: guess that you're considering going into an area where skills as a logic 
: diagnostician will come in handy. If so, consider that a great many 
: programming snafus (most?) are caused by too much code, not too little. 
: This introduction of type of bug is symptomatic of an inexperienced 
: programmer who piles up code until a function seems to work. This 
: example may be used as a metaphor for my argument: that it's easy to 
: jump to wild conclusions when too many factors are considered without 
: comparative weighing. If an idea is too complicated, requires untested 
: assumptions, or if it just doesn't pass the giggle test, it's goofy. A 
: good logic diagnostician can step away from what's obvious and see where 
: an undesireable tangent was branched off from the main goal.

: I don't know if the snafu axiom I described is always true, and I 
: certainly don't have any hard measurements to indicate that it is. 
: Whether it's true or not in the artificial universe of academia is 
: beyond my experience since I'm self-taught. Nonetheless, 15 years of 
: professional programming has shown me that a) many bugs in PC-based 
: development (Windows, network, database...) are caused by too much code, 
: usually written by someone who isn't really sure what they're doing, and 

	Most of which is caused by self taught hackers who _think_
they everything.


: b) most universities do a deplorable job of preparing their charges with 
: the skills necessary to hit the ground running and be even moderately 
: productive in a commercial programming environment.

	There is a slight problem here - not everyone wants to 
to do go rushing of into a commerical programming environment - most people
I have talked to really don't _want_ to be a programer.  Our degree does
not prepare us to merely code - if all you want to learn is C - go
to one of those IT schools and pick it up in 3 weeks - 
	Coming out of my degree - epsecially with my COOP expereince,
I have the skills, education, and work experience to enter the workforce
as a software desinger/developer (Soft. Engineer _if_ you must).  This
kind of job is quite different from simply coding - much more interesting.  
	I therefore take great offence to your suggestion that universities
do a deplorable job preparing us.  I suggest that you ought not speak
of things you apparently know nothing about.  I do not have the stats
for TUNS (somebody from there care to enlighten this guy??) but I can
tell you that Dalhousie Comuting Science students finishing with 
the advance major or honours degree (with or withotu coop) have no 
difficulty in finding a job (possibly not in NS - but then there are
few jobs here anyway).  Very often they go on to do well in Graduate 
School (and they do very well in acquiring NSERC and other funding,
this year 4 of the 13 NSCER grants awared to Dal grads were in CS). 
	Therefore _someone_ thinks were prepared.  


: Moral? Lighten up, simplify, and be prepared to unlearn a lot of that 
: BSCS when you get a job.

This is simply garbage.  Much of what we learn is directly applicable
to the work place - the parts which are not directly applicable provide
academic background which is essential.   Universities, afterall
sever a greater purpose than to be simple job training institutions.
Unfortunately, your misconception is shared by many of your fellow
"self-taught" coders.  You think that since you taught yourself to code
you know everything worthwhile that can be learned in a CS degree-
I doubt it. 


: Jeepers. Preachy, preachy, preachy.


If your not concerned, then go away - don't tell us we're whining, 
preaching or whatever - I for one couldn't care less what you think.



: -- 

: - Brian Ebarb