🚀 go-pugleaf

Steve Franklin (franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca) wrote:
: In article <DI1HqE.Az@cs.dal.ca>, Marni Tuttle <tuttle@ug.cs.dal.ca> wrote:
: >
: >	Let's see if I understand... 
: >	You're advocating, on a University newsgroup, that we all work
: >together to censor the public libraries of Nova Scotia?

: > stuff deleted :-)

: >	In 4 years on the net, reading news, playing muds, irc, surfing the
: >web and reading/participating in e-mail forums and converastions, I have
: >never been forced to look at pornography, I've never "accidently" stumbled
: >across anything that would be shocking to children.

: This I find quite surprising - perhaps you haven't spent as much time on the
: net as I had thought. Want to hear a few examples of my 'accidental
: stumblings' ?

  I never accidently stumbled on anything in my last 7 years on the net
either, Marni and I must be incredibly lucky huh?

: a) You mustn't read many newsgroups because I can't count how many times
: explicit or sex-phone-spams have bombarded groups I've been in -
: alt.internet.services is a heavy victim, but comp.sys.mac.system to
: dal.general hasn't been avoided. Your mileage may vary depending on the
: group you follow. 

  Ever see the phone sex commercials on TV?  We're being bombarded constantly
with this stuff, just take a look at most fashion or celebrity magazines. 

: b) You mustn't post to any/many newsgroups or your email address would have
: been parsed from the news spool by some greasy company looking to sell your
: email address to some internet-scam/business. 

  
: c) You mustn't use the web for research very often, or you would have run
: into problems with Lycos and the webcrawler, or other search utilities. A)
: Lycos now has random adverts at the header when you connect that advertise
: sexual services and sites - anything for a buck I guess. b) Webcrawler
: sometimes comes up with the most interesting matches for various
: search-queries... It has not been uncommon to type in a straightforward
: entry, such as an author of a scientific paper, and come up with his web
: page, along with other lewd pages that contain the same keyword by some
: strange coincedence. 

  I think the person would be wise enough to figure out what's contained on
a website by it's description, they're not being forced to connect to that
site.

: Well, I'm tired of writing examples... There are plenty though, I assure you.

: >	Raise your kids well, and you will have no worries as to what they
: >find/go looking for on the internet... Your children are your
: >responsibility, not mine. 

: This is unacceptable in my mind. Society has the responsibility to protect
: and ensure the proper development of all children. If a parent does not take
: care of a child, the social workers will interfere. If a parent can't
: discipline a child, and the child breaks laws, then the police interfere. If
: a parent does not care a single bit about what a child reads, then we make
: an age of minority and fine stores that sell pornographic magazines to
: children. 

  So you're saying it's my job (since I'm part of society) to help raise other
people's children?  I wish some parents would take more responsibility rather
then trying to pawn off raising there children on somebody else.
  Also, those kids with parents who don't give a damn will find explicit 
material no matter how much censorship or laws are out their.  Why should
everyone else be forced to endure censorship when it's clearly doesn't work?

: And yes, if children are using public-subsidized computers to surf the net,
: we can moderate what they can and can't see... Is this censorship or
: protection? Everyone believes that some amount of censorship/protection is
: acceptable, but everyone's 'red-line' varies. Mine says that children should
: be sheltered from the extremes of wierdness on the net, because the net is
: not indicative of true life... The internet swings very far left and right,
: with very few in the middle... Society of course is the opposite. Extremes
: are dangerous, and a 10 year old does not have the maturity to discern the
: abnormal from the normal every time. 

  If a child is sheltered from something, they'll just end up more curious
and want to see what they're being sheltered from.  Ever wonder why Canada
has such a problem with teen drinking, when it's not as bad in European
countries with lower drinking ages?

: Kids are curious and bright, and if you present them with something new,
: they will explore it. Society's aim is not to place temptations everywhere
: and then let parents warn their kids about every pitfall... No, society must
: not be counter-productive to the nurturing and learning process. Instead, it
: must assist parents in raising kids that are well adjusted, and make this as
: easy a process as possible. And the net is not a great place to do this in
: my mind. 

  Strong caring parents are what raise healty well-adjusted children.  Ever
wonder why some of the poorest kids in some of the most poverty stricken slums
end up being doctors or lawyers (become successful), while others resort to
stealing?   The reason isn't society, it's the way the parents brought them
up.  I'm not saying society is completely innocent (this is a topic that would
take forever to discuss), but censorship isn't the answer.
 
: Now, as a simple little exercise, try these commands:

: grep sex ~/.newsrc | wc -l
: grep tennis ~/.newsrc | wc -l (hmm, much smaller number eh?)
: grep toys ~/.newsrc | wc -l (Wait a sec, where'd my numbers go?)

  You can do the same thing on library computers looking up a book.  You think
we should get rid of all books referring to sex?  How about all other books
that individual people find offending?  You were right earlier on when you
said everyone's view is different on what's acceptable censorship.  That's the
main problem, who has the right to judge how much others should be censored?

: The net is just not a place for kids to be, but we can make it more
: hospitable with a bit of censorship from responsible adults who don't want
: to foster a generation of misplaced confused kids. I sure wouldn't want the
: internet to be a part of my child's development to any large extent - do
: you? I think I'd be happier driving him/her to soccer, dance, piano, or
: swimming practice.

  Responsible adults?  If the adults were responsible in the first place they
wouldn't need to resort to censoring their kids.  If you're happier with
having taking your kids off the net, then that's your choice, just don't
expect everyone else to make sacrifices for your happiness.

Trevor Buckley