🚀 go-pugleaf

Joel Garry wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Jul 1998 08:32:07 -0400, DPH <rally2xs@pop.site1.csi.com> wrote:
> >E. Faubion wrote:
> >
> >> DPH <rally2xs@pop.site1.csi.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Sure - and if you _did_ nail everybody at 78 in a 70, you'd be busy writing along the side
> >> >of the road when the guy you're _really_ looking for whizzes past at +30,
> >>
> >> There's always the chance something bigger will come along.... then
> >> again there's they won't.   Either way that has no bearing on the
> >> citation being written.
> >
> >Right.  The citation being written is still a good citation.  However, as an overall strategy,
> >this will make the road "safer" (in terms of not getting a ticket) for the guy in the car at
> >+30.  I assume that is not the situation you want to promote! <G>
> >
> >> >down the road that A) you gotta do 130+ mph to catch him
> >>
> >> Nope.  I have a radio.  This is not a one horse town.
> >
> >Yeah, that usually works.
> >
> >> >We actually had some politicians whine about the loss in revenue if Indiana's Interstates
> >> >were put up to 65 mph when that was under consideration.  I'm not so sure that it is false
> >> >at all...
> >>
> >> What percentage of Indiana state revenue is generated through traffic
> >> fines?  I'll bet you'll find it to be quite tiny.
> >
> >Whatever it is, those particular politicos didn't seem to want to lose it.
> >
> >> >I think I am safer at limit plius 8, because that way most people are not catching me from
> >> >behind.
> >>
> >> Then you've done your research and know how much extra distance it'll
> >> take you to stop from 78 mph versus 70 mph as per the example you've
> >> been using.  Since you consider this a safer speed I'm curious how you
> >> offset that extra distance.
> >
> >I'm talking about interstate driving here.  Stopping?  For what?  OK, maybe idiots standing in
> >the right lanes of interstates at night waving their shirts.  But otherwise, I don't recall a
> >situation where I've had a sudden reason to stop on an interstate for years.  The reasons to
> >stop on interstates are backed up traffic, and due to the design of interstates, visibility is
> >generally _waaaaaaaaaayyyyy_ better than is necessary for even ordinary cars to stop.  Once we
> >get past ordinary cars, we can talk about my Mitsubishi Eclipse with the 4 wheel disk brakes
> >and the $700 a set, 25,000 mile grippy Goodrich Comp ZR's.
>
> I've had a number of panic stops or maneuvers, myself.  One that got me pissed
> at truckers:  Cruisin' up 15 to Vegas, an easy 78 on a Thursday night (being
> passed at 100+ by the usual gang of idiots.).  All of a sudden, come upon
> a trailer that had self destructed.  OK, no problem the Vette can stop way
> faster than necessary.  As I'm picking my way through the mess, I glance in the
> mirror to see some big rig coming in full blast, apparently not even trying to
> stop (as if he couldn't see my 5 brakelights from miles away).  My only
> hope was dear lady of accelleration.  She didn't fail me, but I gritted my
> teeth each time I ran over something.

Yeah, Corvettes are good for acceleration, but the cost of the tires - whew!  No wonder you were
wincing all through the debris!

> >> >I know I can avoid driving into things in front of me,
> >>
> >> Lots of people who thought the same thing found out otherwise.
> >
> >35 years, Earl.  Its been true for 35 years of my driving experience.
> >
> >> >but I don't trust
> >> >everybody catching me from behind to not drive into me.
> >>
>
> I actually got out of a ticket once when I made an abrupt lane change, and
> explained to the cop I knew there was a VW van behind me that couldn't
> possibly stop as fast as me.

Ah, things went as they should have...

> >> I hate to say this but if you're that paranoid about driving I suggest
> >> you find an alternate method of transportation.
>
> It may be informative that the above cops reaction was a surprise to me.
> Very rarely have I ever met a cop in the LA area who actually listened.
> Other areas seem to be different.  My attitudes and driving are pretty much
> consistent.

Earl was fun to debate with - he thought he might be pissing me off, but he wasn't.  One of the few
I have talked to on this subject that hasn't.  We agreed to end the discussion, but that was between
the 2 of us - I can certianly respond to you.

> >1) There is no alternative and... 2) You aren't paranoid if they really are out to get you!!!
> >Seriously, you have to assume that the other guy is going to make a mistake.  I think that's
> >part of defensive driving.  That mistake may be criminal in nature, such as drinking and
> >driving, or it may be simply failing at the safe driving task.  I don't want either of them
> >running into me from behind.  If I'm +8, I have a longer time to notice them coming at +15 or
> >+20 than I would if I were +0.
> >
> >> >You have a very high threshold for safe.  The first time you pull the trigger, you have a
> >> >1 in 6 chance of dying.
> >>
> >> I also wrote that I can run a stop sign or signal light safely.  If
> >> it's okay for you to speed safely then why is it not okay for someone
> >> else to do those things?
> >
> >_I_ don't run _any_ stop signs deliberately, EVER.  Two reasons - 1) There may be something
> >about the intersection that I don't know, like a hidden approach to it,and 2) If one starts
> >doing that, it gets to be a _habit_.  That would be a very, very dangerous habit that I
> >personally don't want.
>
> Funny, the only stop sign I've run is the one I described in the other post.  It
> doesn't have to be a habit.

I guess I missed that.  I've run several, accidentally - and it always scares the dinghies out of
me.  Last one was 2 yrs ago - a Texas town down near the border, big wide road thru town, a railroad
crossing, and then an immediate stop sign.  I was distracted with the railroad (nobody wins a debate
with a locomotive, so these scare me worst of all) and after going across it I encountered the
stop.  Was going just fast enough and was just close enough that the stop occured abt halfway into
the intersection.  Brakes didn't lock - anti-lock brakes on the rental car, but I'm not all that
sure they were working properly.  I think I would have got stopped with ordinary brakes.  I mean, if
they never lock up, how would you know that they are working at 85% efficiency, instead of 99.9%
(just short of lockup?)

> >> >The second time you have 1 - (5/6) squared chance.  The next time
> >> >is 1 - (5/6) cubed.  etc.  That's if the cylinder is spun each time.  Those are way too
> >> >poor odds for me to consider something safe.
> >>
> >> Since you seem to be into the math may I suggest you do the numbers as
> >> suggested above on the stopping distances.  Be sure you also take into
> >> account the distance traveled during the time it takes you to perceive
> >> and react.  A good starting point for that is 1.6 seconds based on
> >> some serious research into the topic.  If you don't know how to go
> >> about doing this *and* if you're real nice I'll tell you where you can
> >> pick up a free program that will do this for you.
> >
> >I know how to do it, I just don't believe I have to.  Why?  Because I'm not concerned with
> >stopping distances on Interstates, as noted above.
> >
> >> >>  Stop signs and signal lights can be run safely.
> >>
> >> >Not by me.
> >>
> >> No one is coming on the cross street and you can't run the stop sign
> >> or signal light safely?... but you *can* speed safely?  That's a
> >> contradiction.
> >
> >No its not.  See explanation above.
>
> Earl is seeing things in black and white.  A programmerish error, not one
> a policeman ought to be making.  But it must reflect his training - make
> snap judgements in life and death situations, so assume black and white.

I suppose you have to make snap judgements if someone is pointing a gun at you.  We know from recent
conversation that he doesn't write less than 10 over, which is the same experience I have everywhere
else.  It's why I do 8 over! <GGG>  I have a road rally computer in the car that I can calibrate
with the milemarkers on the interstates and then read out true mph in 0.1 mph increments, so I know
how to set the cruise below that 10-over threshold.

> >
> >> >There's a point where it is soooooo dang easy that it's sooooo dang boring that one loses
> >> >focus on what one is doing, thereby making it _less_ safe.
> >>
> >> That's about the worst excuse I've ever heard.   A reasonable driver
> >> will get off the road and take a break when fatigue or boredom sets
> >> in.  Why don't you?
> >
> >Earl, I went to sleep on a simple 2-way radio service call back when the 55 was first
> >introduced, after a good night's sleep and only about 15 miles out from my starting point while
> >attempting to do exactly 55 mph.  It was just too boring.  I decided that it just wasn't
> >adviseable for me to attempt it, so I got a lot of tickets during the 55 mph NMSL nonsense.
> >
>
> Earl juggles his radio and computer and rifle and donut and coffee while
> cruisin' over the speed limit so he can catch criminals.  Policemen never have
> problems staying awake while ignoring basic physiological truths about sleep
> deprivation.  Four ten hour days followed by a graveyard shift?  Sure,
> why not!

Better him than me.

> >> >They don't know me.  I've had those that _ride_ with me tell me that they believe I'm the
> >> >safest driver they know.
> >>
> >> Don't listen to them.  They obviously have no idea what they are
> >> talking about.
> >
> >35 years.  No major accidents.  I think they have great perception, myself! <GGG>
> >
>
> Jeez, I remember my mom saying that.  She wouldn't admit she had blazed the
> red light.  Fortunately, I drive like my dad - leadfoot, but aware.

Yeah - I don't drive all that fast as a rule any more - just 7 or 8 over.  Doesn't mean I won't
seriously bust up the SL if there's unusually good opportunity, but it is rare.  Last real cruise I
did was I-10 in Az or NM, I think.  I was driving 2300 miles back from Tucson to Fredericksburg, Va.
area and the quicker I could go, the better.  So, this van with Ca. plates goes by at abt 95.  Hey,
he's gonna get the ticket anyway, so I drop back about 1/4 mile and get out the detector (I don't
_normally_ run with it mounted) and keep pace.  Sure enough, the detector goes off, cop turns
around, gives me a dirty look, but that's all because he didn't have a good clock on me because I
stood it on the nose when my detector went off and, at 1/4 mile following distance, his radar was
still full of the van.  Van got the ticket, I dropped back to +8 for the rest of the trip, and came
home uneventfully.

DPH