🚀 go-pugleaf

Scott Weiser wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 01 Jul 1998 08:25:43 -0500, Hackman
> <"hacker(nospam)"@jump.nospam.net> wrote:
> 
> >> It does require training to be able to properly recognize and evaluate
> >> HGN, but with training and experience it's a potent tool in the
> >> anti-DUI arsenal.  It's by no means the only tool, nor is it 100%
> >> definitive, but what is?  It's simply another method of evaluating
> >> intoxication.  People may have slurred speech and stagger because they
> >> are having an insulin reaction or a stroke, they may drive poorly
> >> because they are poor drivers, and it's the job of the police officer
> >> to use every tool at his command to carefully evaluate and distinguish
> >> intoxicated persons from those who simply drive badly.
> >>
> >
> >yet you think someone in insulin reaction would pass the HGN ?
> 
> Do I?  As I said, HGN is just one of a battery of investigatory
> procedures.   Diabetics are not infrequently arrested as DUI, but once
> a chemical test is administered, and no alcohol is found, they are not
> charged.   Police officers are also trained to recognize and
> distinguish symptoms of insulin shock and diabetic coma.
> 
> >
> >
> >> >Note...."the fact that the test is not accepted by the medical
> >> >community, it is not admissible as evidence in many states"
> >>
> >> The "medical community" doesn't "accept" that cigarettes cause cancer
> >> either.
> >
> >really ?  care to site that ?  The TOBACCO industry may try claiming
> >that, but not the medical industry...try once more, or supply proff.
> 
> You have just discovered that using broad phrases like "the medical
> community" is a bit dangerous.
> 
> I'll challenge you instead to prove that "the medical community"
> doesn't accept HGN as a valid screen for alcohol, since you made the
> statement.
> 

ummm..in case you haven't been keeping up, the article your responding
to just did.....


> >
> >>   HGN is a diagnostic tool in medicine for several ailments,
> >> intoxication being one of them, but not everyone uses it or sees it's
> >> value.
> >
> >well, at least not the medical industry.....
> 
> And there are practitioners in the "medical industry" who believe that
> spots on your iris will tell them if you have a disease.
> 

yes...but if a cop told me that, or a doctor, I would still tend to
beleive the doctor...not the cop...don't you get it ?  You guys are not
god no matter hwat you may think...so why not just fget out of the
medical field where you do not belong.


> >
> >
> >>   And the fact that it is not admissible in some states is
> >> offset by the fact that it *is* admissible in others.
> >
> >thats conforting....
> 
> It should be, it's a very reliable indicator, and since the object is
> to get drunks off the road, you should support any lawful process
> which allows that to happen and prevent drunks from slipping through
> the cracks.
> 

then if what you say were true it would NOT be conforting untill it was
US wide..
(kinda slow today aren't we ?)


> >
> >>  Many times
> >> it's a political issue, not a factual issue, that keeps HGN out of
> >> court through laws created by the legislature, not by court rulings
> >> based on credible evidence.
> >>
> >
> >yet I would reverse that statement...after all if the medical industry
> >says it;s not valid, why would I then beleive a politician over a
> >research doctor ?
> 
> Care to prove that the "medical industry" says it's not valid?
> 


duhhh....


> >
> >yet your statement above would have me beleive the politician and not
> >the doctor...strange....
> 
> No, I just deny your assertion.
> 

which I have already posted evidence from the medical community....


> >
> >
> >> The evidence is, for those of us who have used it and had sufficient
> >> training and experience to properly evaluate it, that HGN is very
> >> accurate as  *screening procedure* for intoxication.  This evidence is
> >> backed up by hundreds or thousands of DUI arrests where HGN estimates
> >> have been confirmed as accurate by subsequent chemical tests.
> >>
> >
> >if it's so well regraded then it should be no problem having it approved
> >by the medical industry huh ?
> 
> Well, apparantly the "medical industry" in Colorado approves it, since
> it's commonly used and admissible in court.  Your mileage may vary.
> 
> >
> >
> >> There's nothing like empirical evidence.
> >>
> >> >yep...cops yet again wanting to be doctors......
> >>
> >> No, just wanting to be cops and get deadly DUI's off the highways by
> >> using one of a number of tools to evaluate intoxication.
> >>
> >
> >then use the tools that have been approved and proven to work and not
> >the polically modavated ones...or if that method is so great have it
> >approved.  simple.
> 
> Well, HGN *has* been approved in many jurisdictions, so, quod erat
> demonstrandum.
> 

many ?  care to prove that one ?



> Regards,
> 
> Scott Weiser
> 
> ******
> "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my
> friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!"
> ******
> http://www.dimensional.com/~weiser/
> 
> Copyright 1998 by Scott Weiser
> 
> Under the UCC, by the act of transmitting any commercial
> e-mail advertisment to this address, you are expressly
> contracting with me in my professional capacity for a
> consultation on the ad's effectiveness and you expressly
> agree to pay to me the sum of $250.00 for each such
> consultation within 10 days of my report to the original
> sending address.  You further expressly agree that all
> actions for recovery of fees owed shall be subject solely
> to the laws of the State of Colorado, which shall have
> sole jurisdiction.