🚀 go-pugleaf

On Thu, 02 Jul 1998 18:10:52 -0400, Scott M. Kozel <kozelsm@richmond.infi.net> wrote:
>Joel Garry <joelga@pebble.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Scott M. Kozel <kozelsm@richmond.infi.net> wrote:
>> >Joel Garry <joelga@pebble.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Somebody cuts you off, so that means you are deliberately tailgating?
>> >
>> >No, they have violated the law.
>> 
>> That absolves you from blame when you hit them?
>
>Where does that logic come from?

From being blamed in that situation, what do you think.

>
>> >> Your rear tire spins on a pile of gravel, so now you are deliberately out of
>> >> control of your vehicle?
>> >
>> >No, that's not deliberate, and that's not reckless.
>> 
>> Then why did I get a ticket for it (aside from the cop being mad that I
>> spewed gravel at him)?
>
>Because you probably haven't told us the full story....

The full story is I had just got a ticket.  I started to pull away and my
rear tire spun slightly on the gravel before the Posi engaged.  It was so
benign I didn't even know it had happened.  But the cop thought I purposely
spewed him with gravel, and pulled me over and gave me another ticket for
reckless driving, saying in no uncertain terms that if any one of your tires
loses traction you are considered to be out of control of your vehicle.

>
>> >> >> ... assholes "hog" the left lane and cause certain certain out-of-control
>> >> >> people to do stupid and/or aggressive things when driving.
>> >> >
>> >> >That's baloney any way you slice it.
>> >> >
>> >> >People "own" their behaviors, nobody "forces" them to do "stupid and/or
>> >> >aggressive things when driving", or "forces" them to do anything else.
>> >>
>> >> You're doing above the speed limit in the left lane of the freeway, all of a
>> >> sudden three lanes of cars come up behind you very fast.  You're not
>> >> forced to do anything?
>> >
>> >In the sense of a criminal threatening you with bodily harm, yes, in
>> >that situation you might be "forced" to do something....
>> 
>> When does ownership of such behavior vest?
>
>When your response is voluntary and not coerced by a threat.

So you're saying if I'm being chased by some nutcase with a rifle, and I go
over the speed limit, I won't get a ticket?  I don't think the law agrees 
with you, especially when the nutcase turns out to be a cop performing 
normal duties.

Misunderstandings and grey areas are part of the world.  Some behaviors are
indeed non-volitional, even the law recognizes that.  Anyone who is attempting
to uphold the law and doesn't admit that is bound to be a bad cop in many
situations. 

>
>--
>Scott M. Kozel    "The Virginia Highwayman"   kozelsm@richmond.infi.net
>Highway and Transportation History Websites  
>Virginia/Maryland/Washington D.C. http://www.richmond.infi.net/~kozelsm
>PHL area http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Campus/5961/pennways.html


-- 
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