🚀 go-pugleaf

On Wed, 01 Jul 1998 08:25:43 -0500, Hackman
<"hacker(nospam)"@jump.nospam.net> wrote:

>> It does require training to be able to properly recognize and evaluate
>> HGN, but with training and experience it's a potent tool in the
>> anti-DUI arsenal.  It's by no means the only tool, nor is it 100%
>> definitive, but what is?  It's simply another method of evaluating
>> intoxication.  People may have slurred speech and stagger because they
>> are having an insulin reaction or a stroke, they may drive poorly
>> because they are poor drivers, and it's the job of the police officer
>> to use every tool at his command to carefully evaluate and distinguish
>> intoxicated persons from those who simply drive badly.
>> 
>
>yet you think someone in insulin reaction would pass the HGN ?

Do I?  As I said, HGN is just one of a battery of investigatory
procedures.   Diabetics are not infrequently arrested as DUI, but once
a chemical test is administered, and no alcohol is found, they are not
charged.   Police officers are also trained to recognize and
distinguish symptoms of insulin shock and diabetic coma.


>
>
>> >Note...."the fact that the test is not accepted by the medical
>> >community, it is not admissible as evidence in many states"
>> 
>> The "medical community" doesn't "accept" that cigarettes cause cancer
>> either.
>
>really ?  care to site that ?  The TOBACCO industry may try claiming
>that, but not the medical industry...try once more, or supply proff.

You have just discovered that using broad phrases like "the medical
community" is a bit dangerous.

I'll challenge you instead to prove that "the medical community"
doesn't accept HGN as a valid screen for alcohol, since you made the
statement.

>
>>   HGN is a diagnostic tool in medicine for several ailments,
>> intoxication being one of them, but not everyone uses it or sees it's
>> value.
>
>well, at least not the medical industry.....

And there are practitioners in the "medical industry" who believe that
spots on your iris will tell them if you have a disease.

>
>
>>   And the fact that it is not admissible in some states is
>> offset by the fact that it *is* admissible in others.  
>
>thats conforting....

It should be, it's a very reliable indicator, and since the object is
to get drunks off the road, you should support any lawful process
which allows that to happen and prevent drunks from slipping through
the cracks.

>
>>  Many times
>> it's a political issue, not a factual issue, that keeps HGN out of
>> court through laws created by the legislature, not by court rulings
>> based on credible evidence.
>>
>
>yet I would reverse that statement...after all if the medical industry
>says it;s not valid, why would I then beleive a politician over a
>research doctor ?

Care to prove that the "medical industry" says it's not valid?

>
>yet your statement above would have me beleive the politician and not
>the doctor...strange....

No, I just deny your assertion.

>
>
>> The evidence is, for those of us who have used it and had sufficient
>> training and experience to properly evaluate it, that HGN is very
>> accurate as  *screening procedure* for intoxication.  This evidence is
>> backed up by hundreds or thousands of DUI arrests where HGN estimates
>> have been confirmed as accurate by subsequent chemical tests.
>> 
>
>if it's so well regraded then it should be no problem having it approved
>by the medical industry huh ?

Well, apparantly the "medical industry" in Colorado approves it, since
it's commonly used and admissible in court.  Your mileage may vary.

>
>
>> There's nothing like empirical evidence.
>> 
>> >yep...cops yet again wanting to be doctors......
>> 
>> No, just wanting to be cops and get deadly DUI's off the highways by
>> using one of a number of tools to evaluate intoxication.
>>
>
>then use the tools that have been approved and proven to work and not
>the polically modavated ones...or if that method is so great have it
>approved.  simple.

Well, HGN *has* been approved in many jurisdictions, so, quod erat
demonstrandum.

Regards,

Scott Weiser

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