🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <3357062F.2509@SPAMBLOCK.wmin.ac.uk>,
Vince Young  <fsaec@SPAMBLOCK.wmin.ac.uk> wrote:
>John P. Curcio wrote:
>> 
>> In article <33558C62.46E7@SPAMBLOCK.wmin.ac.uk>,
>> Vince Young  <fsaec@SPAMBLOCK.wmin.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> >gas costs about 3
>> >times the cost in the US.
>> 
>> That doesn't mean that it should cost three times what it does here in
>> the US....
>>
>Yes, but maybe if you thought about how much it cost you'd also consider
>how much you used and would be less likely to pollute so much.

I know exactly how much I use, and how much it costs.  I get the bill
every month for my 300 mile/week commute to work.  It adds up.  Is
there anything I can do about it?  Absolutely not.  I can't afford to
live closer to work in the manner I am accustomed to, and I refuse to
give up quality of life for me and my family.

>Perhaps
>people might even force the politicians to deliver better transport
>alternatives for them.

And praytell, where does this money come from?  Right out of
everyone's pocket, in the form of taxes.  Add the 50-60% overhead of a
government program to fuel the bureacracy, and the payback is a hell
of a lot less than the payout.
 
>> >Maybe if the price of gas was increased people wouldn't go out and buy
>> >those 4 by 4 s which have big ebgines.
>> 
>> Why do you wish to restrict the choice of vehicle which I choose to
>> drive?
>>
>I never suggested restricting you. The Jeep Cherokee is sold in England
>too.
>I merely stated that maybe you'd consider its fuel efficiency more if
>the cost to you was higher, the choice of which vehicle is still there,
>no infringments on civil liberties here, no siree.

You want to punish people for driving various types of vehicles.
That's the whole idea of it-- similar to sin taxes on cigarettes or
alcohol.

>> >You don't need a car with a 4
>> >litre engine, it's wasteful.
>> 
>> Again, this isn't up to you to decide.  Suppose I have a boat which I
>> need to pull on a trailer.  Then may I please have a 4 litre engine?
>> What if I want to put a snow plow on my vehicle, to make money [edit]
>>
>I never said you couldn't have one did I ???

No, but you want to put the price of it out of my reach.  Same thing,
just a different method of accomplishing it.

>It isn't up to me to decide if it's wasteful, nor for you, it's quite
>simply a fact. How many people use their 4 by 4 to pull a boat or plough
>snow ???? How many just have it beacuse they want to ?

So what?  What's the problem with that?

>I'm simply saying that those that contribute more in pollution ought to
>be made aware, and the best way to do that is through their wallet,
>especially in capitalist society like in the US.

This happens already.  They buy more gas, they pay more in fuel costs
and gasoline taxes.  We don't need any more taxes.

> Did it ever occur to you that the person who gets
>> half the gas mileage as you also pays TWICE as much for gas, including
>> TWICE the amount of tax money?  Those who use more pay more.  Wow,
>> what an equitable situation!
>> 
>My, aren't we facetious today !

No, not at all.  I am 100% serious.

>They also cause twice the pollution

This cannot be shown.  The worst offenders are the oldest cars, as
well as large vehicles such as trucks (something like 10% of the cars
produce over half the pollution).  Furthermore, untimed stop lights
and other mindless forms of "traffic calming" contribute more to
pollution than anything else.

>and consume twice the amount of
>fossil fuels to get the same distance.

O.K., twice the amount of fuel.  So?

>That doesn't sound very fair to
>anyone else does it?

It's 100% fair.  That person is PAYING for it.  He isn't being
subsidized, which cannot be said about public transportation, which,
at least in my case, would take me 5 times as long and cost 3 times as
much for me to commute to work.  And I'd STILL have to drive 10 miles.

>If you can afford to pollute you can afford to pay up for it too. Still
>got your precious choice, still got your all important decision, still
>got all the roads to drive on, no changes there.

I have had emissions testing done on my car, as well as my truck.
Both are FAR below the limits set for inspection.  It always kills me
to see these old beaters on the road, belching blue-grey oil smoke.  I
keep my vehicles tuned properly, and I properly inflate the tires.
I'm not the problem.

-JPC


-- 
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  John P. Curcio                         jpc@philabs.research.philips.com
  Philips Research     345 Scarborough Road     Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
                 ...I speak for nobody but myself...