🚀 go-pugleaf

"Scott M. Kozel" <kozelsm@richmond.infi.net> wrote:
>In dc.driving Gumbyy@ticnet.com (Marc) wrote:
>> "Scott M. Kozel" <kozelsm@richmond.infi.net> wrote:
>> >Joel Garry <joelga@pebble.org> wrote:

>> >> People attempting to commit suicide with their cars, on the other hand,
>> >> ought to be stopped.  It's generally a cry for help.
 
>> >I've heard it's generally an attempt to make it look like an "accident".
 
>> It's because of the incompetent accident investigation (or the
>> outright lying) that the suicide numbers are underrepresented.  Earl
>> said that himself too.  If he suspects that speed may be a cause, it
>> gets listed.  If he suspects that suicide may be a cause, it isn't
>> listed (only if is is undeniable, like if a note is left).

>In all fairness to the victim and their family, I think it is
>appropriate to omit the suspicion of suicide if it is only "suspected". 
>Innocent until proven guilty.

What "guilt?"  Should someone feel shame over suicidal feelings?  That
belief would limit ones desire to get help if they were not sure about
their feelings.

>Unless a suicide note is left behind, or if the person clearly tells
>others first that they're going to kill themselves, then I think it
>would be hard to prove that the "accident" was intentional.  

Just like it is hard to prove that "speed" killed, but it gets listed
quite often.

Why the double standard?

>In the classic case of a single-occupant single-fatality
>hit-fixed-object no-skid-marks no-witnesses accident, suicide is
>certainly a significant possibility.  But IMO it would be difficult if
>not impossible to prove that it was intentional, unless there was a note
>or a threat; and the fairest thing to do is to list it as a true
>accident.

"Fair?"  To who?  To not report what is believed to be the truth?  Why
lie about them?  They are already dead...

>> The Christian domination in our society

>May have been the case 40 years ago, but not so today.  I'd believe it
>if you had said "New Age Movement domination".

Bah.  There are still things that I can't buy at certain times and/or
on certain days that were put there for religious reasons.  The
movement that created Prohibition and the current prohibition was
rooted in puritanism.  Much of the anti-gay and anti-choice movement
is centered in Christianity.  Whether the people that currently keep
the beliefs are practicing does not change the tradition from which
they draw their core beliefs.

Marc
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