🚀 go-pugleaf

Matthew Russotto wrote:
> 
> In article <3D11101B.33F06E1B@earthops.net>,
> Tiny Human Ferret  <ixnayamspay_klaatu@earthops.net> wrote:
> >Matthew Russotto wrote:
> >>
> >> ROTFL.  Sure, there's lots of Mexican nationals.  Know what most of them
> >> would be doing?  Keeping their heads down like pretty much any
> >> civilians, that's what.  They aren't Swiss.  Know what the Mexicans here
> >> illegally would be doing?  Same thing, that's what.
> >
> >Including the infamous Mexican Mafia, the equally infamous 18th Street Gang,
> >and the MS-13? Oh, that's right, MS-13 is Salvadoran and not Mexican, so
> >sorry.
> 
> Faced with the US Army?  Damn right.  

Well, how is the Army going to find them and oust them? The Army is
unquestionably the best when it comes to blasting the crap out of a known
enemy in a known location, especially when it's a continent removed from the
US. But is the Army capable of MOUT (military operations on urbanized
terrains) when the urbanized terrains are, for instance, downtown Los
Angeles? or East-of-the-interstate Austin TX? The modes would very quickly
shift from MOUT to low-intensity conflict. If gangstas tried to stand and
fight the Army, they'd get shredded and they know it. So, they take off
their colors and fade into the crowd of millions. But will they be any less
organized? The Army won't know who they are, but they'll certainly know who
they are! And in the end, it inescapably devolves to
insurgency/counter-insurgency. Hence, we establish control of the borders
now, or we do it later when it's a bigger problem. 

> And they certainly have no loyalty
> to the Mexican government; they're more likely to fight each other than to
> band together to support Mexico against the US.

To ask a tough question "to which Mexican government do you refer?" -the
popularly elected political government in Mexico DF, or the unelected
narcotrafficante "government" of Mexico Norte? The border states in Mexico
have only nominally been controlled by the Mexico-DF government, for at
least a decade; the real control is in the hands of the smugglers, the
coyotes, the cartels, and the elements of the military who are taking bribes
or actively involved in trafficking. 

In many ways, these people are as much a problem to the "legitimate
government of Mexico" as they are to the US. Does Mexico cooperate with the
US? Mexico is riddled with corruption and the "legitimate Mexico" is almost
totally dependent on remittances sent home by illegals working in the US.
This will only increase as the "maquiladora" factories move overseas to
southeast-Asia:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14093-2002Jun19.html

<quote in-part>

Mexican Workers Pay for Success 
With Labor Costs Rising, Factories Depart for Asia 

By Mary Jordan
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, June 20, 2002; Page A01 

TIJUANA, Mexico -- Cesiah Ruiz Brena came to Tijuana 
in 1989, deliriously happy to get a job at a new 
Japanese factory. Her work space was grand, the lights 
were bright and the pay was unimaginably good: 
$100 a week to start.

But after 13 years during which her wages rose to 
$200 a week, Ruiz Brena lost her job on June 1. 
Her Canon inkjet printer factory shut down. 
She and her co-workers shared a cake, snapped photos 
of one another and said goodbye. The factory, they were told, 
was moving to Thailand and Vietnam, where wages are 
as low as $15 a week -- less than what she earns in a day.

All along the Mexican border with the United States, 
once-busy factories are closing. Since the end of 2000, 
tearful farewell parties have been held for 
250,000 factory workers in Mexico. Some of the same jobs 
that left North Carolina textile plants and Ohio auto-parts 
assembly lines for Mexico in the 1980s are now moving to Asia. 
The reason is the same: cheaper labor.

The loss of jobs here in part reflects the slowdown in 
the U.S. economy. But many of the plant closings are 
just the globalized economy at work. Factories came 
to take advantage of low wages; now that success has driven wages up, 
they are moving on. Mexico is left with a
bittersweet legacy: higher wages, but fewer jobs.

More than 500 foreign-owned assembly-line factories in Mexico, 
called maquiladoras, have closed in the past two years, 
in part because wages have doubled in the past 10 years 
and are no longer considered low in the world economy. 
An entry-level factory worker in Tijuana
earns $1.50 to $2 an hour, compared with 
25 cents an hour in parts of China.

International companies once wary of China are 
increasingly inclined to invest there. Those include 
a golf-club manufacturer that laid off 1,500 employees 
in Tijuana and an electronics factory in Guadalajara 
that left 4,000 workers jobless when it moved. 
Suddenly Mexican workers feel that China is their 
fiercest competitor, sucking their jobs east.

"It's a reality of globalization," said a Mexican economist, 
Rogelio Ramirez de la O. As he surveys companies in Mexico, 
he said, they increasingly talk of moving to China. 
"This is not going to turn around automatically. 
It's a structural adjustment in the world economy."

</quote>

> 
> >> They aren't an
> >> invading army loyal to the Estados Unidos Mexico infiltrating the United
> >> States, no matter how much you may think so.
> >
> >Illegal-alien gangs are in effect criminal foreign militias engaging in
> >operations -- continuing criminal enterprise, for that matter -- on US
> >soil.
> 
> Organized crime, yes.  Foreign militias?  You're dreaming.

I didn't intend to suggest that they are foreign militias in the sense that
they were under the chain-of-command of Mexico... but then again, listen to
the OpenBorders arguments of Jorge Casteneda sometime, or listen to the
statements of Presidente Vicente Fox. There's no direct chain-of-command
but... well, what's the difference between a Movement and an Organization?
Both of them have the Peerless Leader up on a soapbox telling people what
they should be doing. In an Organization, the followers have accountability
to the leader as to whether or not they actually do as instructed. In a
Movement, there's no such accountability, in either direction. But that
doesn't mean that the people in the Movement won't in fact do exactly as
directed. Further, there's no legitimate way to pin on the leader the
actions of the followers, as there would be in an Organization. 

[klaatu pauses to muse that this means that the _last_ thing Yasser Arafat
and the PLO would want would be a legitimate Palestinian State.
Plausible-deniability of authority over terrorists would be right out the
window, wouldn't it. But that's for another thread.]

> 
> >> Low intensity conflict is simply a way of tossing away money and lives
> >> on the installment plan.  If you're going to fight a war, pick an
> >> objective and obtain it.
> >
> >I agree. However, as you pointed out, those objectives aren't desirable,
> >being either annexation or occupation, eh?
> 
> Then maybe you'd better re-think the whole idea of complaining that Mexico is
> violating a peace treaty.
> 
> Me, I'm not so sure annexation wouldn't be a good idea.  Would tend to
> counter the aging of America, bring lots of young people into the Social
> Security system.

Ah, I can't hardly believe that you of all people are arguing in favor of
this sort of Ponzi scheme! What if all of those young people decide that
they don't like paying into a pyramid scam that only benefits a bunch of old
geezers who all speak another language, and vote it out of existence?

> --
> Matthew T. Russotto                                mrussotto@speakeasy.net

-- 
    Be kind to your neighbors, even though they be transgenic chimerae.
Whom thou'st vex'd waxeth wroth:  Meow. <-----> http://earthops.net/klaatu/