🚀 go-pugleaf

twosheds@clark.net (Two Sheds) wrote:
>
>Hmmm... I like my Internet global. Otherwise, what use is it?

It can be both. That's the beauty of integrating things.
I don't want to have to log on ClarkNet for national and
international stuff, then mess with busy signals from a 
local BBS. Or with telnetting. *Lots* of other folks feel
the same way. 

>"Local" distribution is still quite huge.

As noted earlier, the Net already has hobby-related 
groups at the local level (there's even an alt. group
called alt.music.chapel.hill). So again, why not 
serve cities with local groups?

>My point *exactly* is that you can't help it being propagated
>all over the place. A mailing list would be a very efficient
>use of the net for this purpose, because the discussion would
>only circulate among interested parties.

But I see this as a way to circulate a wide variety of 
information--with readers of the newsgroup being able to 
pick what they want without much fuss. A mailing list would 
require them to swallow everything on a message-by-message
basis. People with pine would have more mailbox clutter. And
those with Eudora would have more disk clutter.

As for propagation at various news sites, I'd go with a 
va.local.alexandria-type arrangement if people really thought
that va.alexandria would harder to ignore. But heck, you're 
the one saying volume would be low. 

>I'm "managing" fine, but I have concern for the size and
>complexity of news feeds, as should anyone who cares about
>anything other than getting their share of bandwidth, IMHO.

With 12,000-plus newsgroups already out there, I'd say you're a 
little late. More than 99 percent of what's on the Net is
irrelevant to me. But I tolerate it because that's what
we're all about--diversity.

>Actually, this *is* a good use for a BBS. All of the
>residents are a local call away. They don't even need
>an Internet account, just a modem. You'd reach a lot
>more people in Alexandria with a BBS, if that's really
>your agenda. Nobody would have to *buy* a service.

I'm gungho on the use of BBS systems! The newsgroup could 
be ported over. And why talk about one BBS. I'd like to
see many folks be able to work the newsgroup into their
BBS routines.

Too, please remember that many BBS systems can't handle e-mail 
as gracefully as we on the Net can. A newsgroup would be
much kinder to BBS people, who wouldn't have list messages
mixed in with their personal ones.

>While we're at it, a lot more people have E-mail than news.

But again, I think people could manage things much more 
easily with a newsgroup than a mailing list. Not everyone 
wants to digest a mailing list serving a whole city with
diverse interests. Besides, the trend is toward newsgroups--
especially with the popularity of Netscape-style software. 
And if need be, for those wanting it, there could be a 
porting to the mailing list format.

>The implication is that there will be 100,000 active
>participants in your group. How many people are in the
>entire area covered by dc.general? Now, how many posts
>per day in dc.general? Cross-multiply. Low volume!

Hey, I never said all 100,000 would post. Volume 
should be up there--but not enough to overwhelm the Net. 
You yourself keep unwittingly making a case for 
the newsgroup not being that much of a burden.


>: Let's have the Usenet model prevail over the 
>: proprietary one.
>
>What's proprietary about a mailing list? Software's
>free. What's non-proprietary about Usenet? Most have
>to pay for their feeds, and some groups are commercial
>and copyrighted. Linux. Majordomo. These are free things.

I meant services such as AOL where the meter is ticking
when peole use forums or equivalents. Nothing against 
AOL and the rest--I'd hope they would participate (they
could carry the newsgroup and add value through local
links). But I want people on all systems to have access.

If nothing else, keep in mind that a newsgroup would be
more clique-resistant than a mailing list.

>How about meeting in Alexandria and discussing the
>issues? You all *live* right close together, don't you?
>Cliff Stoll would suggest that you go and have coffee
>with your neighbors, and discuss the issues with them.

Alas, many people in Alexandria have demanding jobs 
or family situations that prevent them from getting out. 
Not everyone is a bachelor astronomer like Stoll.
Too, a newsgroup would allow more detailed discussion 
of civic issues--by many people--than the usual 
meetings could. Also the existing civic groups could use the 
Net to recruit new members.

>You have 100% of your interest group within a few square
>miles. Why should your conversations be REPLICATED to
>every connected company, university, and government
>installation from Richmond to Baltimore?

But, hey, you've said this would be a low-volume group. And
as noted, I'd certainly be willing to make sure it was
named and otherwise set up to reduce distribution to sites
not wanting it.

>Why not try a mailing list first? When it gets to a thousand
>lurkers and 50 posts per day, you will have an excellent
>argument for a newsgroup. I still contend however, that
>newsgroups are often full of noise, and lists are often not.

Presumably you feel that dc.general's S/N ratio is satisfactory 
or at least tolerable. Notice you're here right now rather 
than in a national group or on a mailing lists. I think 
people want to read and post to locally oriented groups--or 
at least enough to justify the concept. Va.alexandria 
or va.local.alexandria (or whatever the name was) would 
be in this tradition. Hope you'll reconsider. If by chance
you're in Alexandria, I'm sure you'd make some terrific posts.
And if you're elsewhere, then you might want to think about
enriching your own town's life with a newsgroup.

David Rothman | rothman@clark.net