🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1993Mar10.161419.10152@apgea.army.mil>, ahgrabow@apgea.army.mil (Alexander H. Grabowski <ahgrabow>) writes:
|> Hello, guys,
|> 
|> I just heard some very interesting numbers on WBAL's morning show
|> with Uncel Al. I think, they perhaps might wake up some people-
|> but perhaps I am too optimistic.
|> 
|> Facts:
|> 
|> Every year, more US-citizens are killed by guns than during
|> the whole, 10-year vietnam war (then: ~53.000).

Some numbers:

 Murders and non-negligent manslaughters known to police (1990)
  Total:           20,045
  using a firearm: 12,847 (64% of the total)

[BJS Sourcebook of Criminal Justice Stats, 1991 ISBN 0-16040397-0, page 400]

 accidental deaths: falling from ~3000 [1932] to ~1400 [1987], while the 
                    population rose about 20x.  In units of deaths per
                    100k, thats 24.03 [1932] to 5.74 [1987].  SOurce sez BOC,
                    and i can't remember what that means!

 suicide: can't find the number; its higher than the accident+murder+nnm rate
          .. there are about 30k suicides [all types, not just firearms]/yr.
          note that many countries have higher suicide rates  -and- more
          restrictive firearms laws (see Japan).

|> 
|> The murder rate in Great Britain is about 350/year. That is less
|> than in Balto city alone.
|>  
|> Considering that Great Britains has not less than 1/5 of the 
|> population of the US that would result in a murder rate of 
|> 1750 per year in the US. 
|> 
|> Compare that to more than 50.000!

1. compare that to 12,847, since thats the murder/nnm number.

2. The entire GB murder/nnm number is < the US NON-firearm number 
   (20,045-12,847 = 7198).  Clearly the difference between GB and the US
   involves more than just firearms.  
   By the way, GB's violent crime rate is rising - see the newspapers within
   the last week.  The US murder/nnm rate rose from '60 to '80, fell to '85, 
   then rose again; the number is still under the max rate in 1980 
   [BJS sourcebook, ibid].  During this time, practically every piece of
   federal gun control legislation passed during the 20th century has been
   enacted, centering around 1968.  There wasn't even a slight dip following
   the gca '68.

3. the accidential death rate due to firearms is less than the accidental death
   rate from falls, drowning, fires, poison and choking.

|> 
|> You simply can't brake the laws of logic- more guns out in the streat
|> definitely means more killings.

Coincidently, the time served for violent crime has dropped since 1950, while
the crime rate has risen:  Murder 1.8 yrs served
                           Rape    ~9 months
                           Robbery ~3 months
                           Car theft 3 days  [NBC 9 Dec 1992 for 1990 year]
                            ..federal tends to be higher, states lower

coincidence?  I don't think so.

As a noted criminoligist (Prof Gary Kleck, FSU) put it - the deterrent effect
 of punishment is directly related to certainty, severity, and celarity
 (promptness).  Right now we are 0 for 3.

I think that we could deal with the problem of criminals attempting to purchase
handguns legally with an point of sale background check, but we keep getting
"Brady Bills" instead - as an aside, the house version (HR.277 this year) still
doesn't mandate a background check, just a waiting period.  I find bills like
that to be disengenuous at best.

|> 
|> 
|> And, yes, I know what is going to come.
|> - the right to bear arms (this right refers to the purpose of bearing
|>   arms, too: *exclusively* to defend this country)
|> - All bad guys will not respect.......
|> - All good guys will be helpless......
|> - I don't know what I am talking about....
|> - One of these days I might be happy if the 'free militia' saves my a**...

and you didn't get any of that from me, did you?  Check out my numbers, the call
 is free:

 BJS 1-800-732-3277

see the following books [not written by the NRA or HCI]:

 Under the Gun [1983] Wright, Rossi, Daley 
 The Gun Control Debate - you decide [1991?]: Les Nesbit
 Point Blank - guns and violence in America: Gary Kleck
 Armed and Considered Dangerous: Wright and Rossi

|> 
|> Because it has become a habit for one of the more frequent posters here
|> to quote Robert A. Heinlein, let me make a quote from a SF-novel too:
|> 'Oh, Holy St. Leibovitz, let them dream on!'
|> (WHo said that, BTW? )
|> 
|> Regards
|> 
|> Alexander
|> __________________________________________________________________
|> | Don't call us, we will call you    |  Ain't got no brains.     |
|> | Don't flame me, I won't flame you  |  Ain't got no opinion.    |
|> |                                    |  Ain't got nuttin' to be  |
|> | ahgrabow@cbda8.apgea.army.mil      |  held responsible for.    |
|> |                                                                |
|> |       Only narrow-minded people care about typos.              |
|> |                                   (James Michener)             |
|> |________________________________________________________________|

-- 
Michael Phelps, (external) mjp@vnet.ibm.com ..
                (internal) mjp@bwa.kgn.ibm.com .. mjp at kgnvmy         
 (and last but not least a disclaimer)  These opinions are mine..