🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <B11088A9966874AE6@wcbs.demon.co.uk>,
dave@wcbs.demon.co.uk (Dave Porter) wrote:

>Does anyone have any experience with Soft windows?

Yes.  I am using 4.1 on a 7200/90 and would certainly like to hear from
other users too.

It runs Turnpike, Eudora 3.1, MSIE 4.0 quite successfully

Booting up is slow (and the turbo start option can cause problems of
corruption, requiring you to run ScanDisk which comes with the package as
part of the standard Windows setup).  

Downloading from the web on the Mac side to port across has not worked with
programmes for me, although it works for files. You can set up a shared
area with the Mac (called a "folder" when seen from the Mac and a "disk"
when seen from SoftWindows).  It is tempting to use this for programmes,
since the download is much faster when no emulation intervenes, and should
work with PCExchange or MacLink, but I have had no luck and just have to
revert to the old custom of making coffee and hoping the line won't fail
while SoftWin chugs away via a 28,800 modem.

If you have a faster machine than 90MHz your experience will be better but
then you have probably become used to your new speed and won't enjoy
running at a third of its capacity.  (Hmm, have you got 270MHz?  SoftWin
should appear to run at 90MHz, which is what I am accustomed to on the Mac
side.)

Although I am registered with Insignia I haven't heard that version 5.0 is
available.  So maybe customer support is not that splendid.  Do experiment
as much as possible in the early days, if you get it, and use the 90 day
tech support intensively if you need to, because that is all you will get.

---  I am thinking of cheap PC.  Can't see any portable cheap enough and
don't wish to be totally barricaded in with equipment.  So I would be
interested to hear how you get on if you do use version 5.0

Keith



Keith Crook
keith@valperga.demon.co.uk

Dave Porter wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with Soft windows?
> 
> I am designing web pages and I need to see what they look like on a PC. I

SNIPPED

> included, to show exactly what a web page would look like on a real PC?
> 
> Any help appreciated.

I use soft windows 94 (version 4) on an 8100/100 and it runs just fine.  
It ain't exactly sparkling for speed but for occasional use its is more than 
adequate.  You need LOTS of RAM, but if you have that it will do dandy things 
like run MS Word for windows 95.  As I say, its a bit slow but perfectly 
emulates a real Pentium PC instruction set and I reckon everything about 
what you see on teh emulated screen is the same as would be on a real one.  
A Netscape screen in the emuator will give you exactly on screen what you 
would get from a real PC so as a cheap test bed Soft Windows will do you.  
Its definitely NOT fast enough for any PC games though, so don't get your 
hopes up (even version 5 is supposed to be not much faster that 4)

 ======================
/   Stephen R Parker                 /
/ steve@parkfish.demon.co.uk   /
 ======================

In article <B11088A9966874AE6@wcbs.demon.co.uk>,
dave@wcbs.demon.co.uk (Dave Porter) wrote:

>Subject: Soft Windows
>From: Dave Porter
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:46:33 +0000
>Newsgroups: demon.tech.mac
>
>Does anyone have any experience with Soft windows?
>
>I am designing web pages and I need to see what they look like on a PC. I
>considered, for a few seconds, buying a cheap PC but apart from viewing web
>pages I really have no need for such a thing.
>
>I have read the review of the new version of Soft Windows, version 5.0, in
>MacUser and it states that 'you get as near as damn it a PC inside your
>Mac...'
>
>Is this the case, does it really emulate a PC so closely and would Soft
>Windows allow me to use a PC version of Netscape, which I believe is
>included, to show exactly what a web page would look like on a real PC?

Yes it does and yes it should.

My company makes a product that REALLY gets deep into a PC and yet it runs
fine under SodtWindows.

I can even connect to the office network and Internet using it.

Robin

In article <B112062E96683C4E4@moneypit.demon.co.uk>,
robin@moneypit.demon.co.uk (Robin Jackson) wrote:

>Yes it does and yes it should.

Thanks for your help.

--
Dave Porter  -  dave@wcbs.demon.co.uk  -  http://www.wcbs.demon.co.uk
From Northumberland ... web design service now available.

Steve Firth <filter@firthcom.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> I see that Apple 166MHz Pentium cards are selling for �200 ish at the
> moment.

Sounds a bit tempting, where?  Also where can I find this elusive memory
for a quid a megabyte, do you happen to know how cheaply I can get hold
of a 4/8 Meg Compact Flash card?

TIA. 

In article <1d4svwv.yitfa218dujvoN@firthcom.demon.co.uk>,
filter@firthcom.demon.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:

>I see that Apple 166MHz Pentium cards are selling for �200 ish at the
>moment.

Okay? What is that exactly?

--
Dave Porter  -  dave@wcbs.demon.co.uk  -  http://www.wcbs.demon.co.uk
From Northumberland ... web design service now available.

Dave Porter <dave@wcbs.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <1d4svwv.yitfa218dujvoN@firthcom.demon.co.uk>,
> filter@firthcom.demon.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> 
> >I see that Apple 166MHz Pentium cards are selling for �200 ish at the
> >moment.
> 
> Okay? What is that exactly?

A Pentium on a card that means you can use your mac just like a P166 as
well as a mac.

In article <B11103B596683F6AA@valperga.demon.co.uk>,
keith@valperga.demon.co.uk (Keith Crook) wrote:

>Booting up is slow (and the turbo start option can cause problems of
>corruption, requiring you to run ScanDisk which comes with the package as
>part of the standard Windows setup).  

Keith, thanks for your thoughts on this, I appreciate it. It seems from
what you say that Soft Windows will do what I want.

>Downloading from the web on the Mac side to port across has not worked with
>programmes for me, although it works for files.

I don't think I will need this.

>If you have a faster machine than 90MHz your experience will be better but
>then you have probably become used to your new speed and won't enjoy
>running at a third of its capacity.

I have an 8600/200 which is pretty fast. Anything running slow is always
annoying, but I don't think this will be a problem either as I am only
going to use it occasionally  for viewing web pages, and if it saves me
buying a PC, then who cares!

>Although I am registered with Insignia I haven't heard that version 5.0 is
>available.  So maybe customer support is not that splendid.

Possibly, but version 5.0 is now available.

Thanks again.

--
Dave Porter  -  dave@wcbs.demon.co.uk  -  http://www.wcbs.demon.co.uk
From Northumberland ... web design service now available.

In article <34EB5429.6615@parkfish.demon.co.uk>,
Steve Parker <steve@parkfish.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>I use soft windows 94 (version 4) on an 8100/100 and it runs just fine.  
>It ain't exactly sparkling for speed but for occasional use its is more than 
>adequate.

Excellent, that's what I want really.

>You need LOTS of RAM, but if you have that it will do dandy things 
>like run MS Word for windows 95.

I currently have 96 MB which should be enough, I think.

> As I say, its a bit slow but perfectly 
>emulates a real Pentium PC instruction set and I reckon everything about 
>what you see on teh emulated screen is the same as would be on a real one.

That's what I want , thank God I don't have to buy a PC.

>Its definitely NOT fast enough for any PC games though, so don't get your 
>hopes up

No problem, I don't have any games. Thanks for your help.

--
Dave Porter  -  dave@wcbs.demon.co.uk  -  http://www.wcbs.demon.co.uk
From Northumberland ... web design service now available.

Steve Firth <filter@firthcom.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Paul Womar <Newsmaster@pwomar.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > Sounds a bit tempting, where?
> 
> From COMPU.D <http://www.compu.-d.com/> a 686 card is 173 quid.

Cheers, just taking a peek now, it looks like you've put an extra dot in
though.  I think it's either a PC card or if I can strtch to it a G3
card.  I'm looking at the site and I can't see anything other than a
P166 card at $549, do you ahve an exact URL?

> >  Also where can I find this elusive memory
> > for a quid a megabyte,
> 
> I got mine from Mygate, but RAM prices are 'volatile' and you need to
> keep your eyes peeled for offers. DABS are offering RAM at 94p a
> megabyte ATM. <http://www.dabs.co.uk/>.

I get most stuff from Dabs and their site isn't working as I type this
but for a 5v 32mb EDO DIMM it was about 50 quid a couple of weeks ago.

> They are also worth trying for SCSI HDs and CD/CD-R/CD-RW the prices of
> each of these (if bought as bare drives) is  afraction of the cost
> charged for apple kit. Yes you have to buy your own driver software, but
> it's worth it given the saving (e.g. 24x CD = 79.00, 32x = 85.00; 4x6x
> CD-R = 240.00; 2x2x6x CD-RW = 225.00)

I have a Umax clone anyway, my SCSI chain is already full and if get the
PC card it will be the first thing I've actually bought with an Apple
badge on it I think (apart from my Newton 130, offers welcome!).
Thanks for the advice, have you used one of the PC cards, I've read a
few reviews and they suggest possible problems witht he monitor leads
for clone owners, I have a Umax with a normal Mac port but I use a
Matrox Millenium card which has a VGA port and a monitor with a VGA
cable, am I in trouble?

In article <1d4tebz.94hr8v1ql3jx9N@pwomar.demon.co.uk>,
Newsmaster@pwomar.demon.co.uk (Paul Womar) wrote:

>A Pentium on a card that means you can use your mac just like a P166 as
>well as a mac.

Okay. Would there be any advantage to using a Pentium card over Soft
Windows, bearing in mind Soft Windows is about half the price?

--
Dave Porter  -  dave@wcbs.demon.co.uk  -  http://www.wcbs.demon.co.uk
From Northumberland ... web design service now available.

Dave Porter <dave@wcbs.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Okay. Would there be any advantage to using a Pentium card over Soft
> Windows, bearing in mind Soft Windows is about half the price?

Apart from being about ten times faster, no :-)
AIUI even a 266Mhz G3 will not emalate as fast as a 166Mhz Pentium
althouh it should be pretty close, Macworld did a comparison of Virtual
PC, Softwindows and 2 PC cards, the review is available at
www.macworld.co.uk (although you need to register 1st I think) so if you
are seriously considering it then take a look, I think I'll probably be
ordering the card ina  few days so if you want to double up and sut the
costs a bit, give me a mail.

In article <1d4vgam.ybs8cdgfjd08N@pwomar.demon.co.uk>,
Newsmaster@pwomar.demon.co.uk (Paul Womar) wrote:

>> Okay. Would there be any advantage to using a Pentium card over Soft
>> Windows, bearing in mind Soft Windows is about half the price?
>
>Apart from being about ten times faster, no :-)

You bet. I was running SoftWindows 95 on this 7500/100 and I reckon it went
something like a 10MHz Pentium, if such a thing existed...

So maybe divide clock speed by 10? Depending on the application of course.

However, to check something like a web site it shouldn't make much odds; I
found that SoftWin extremely good at compatibility even with things that
used tricksy video drivers in DOS. 

-- 
Peter

Dave Porter <dave@wcbs.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <1d4tebz.94hr8v1ql3jx9N@pwomar.demon.co.uk>,
> Newsmaster@pwomar.demon.co.uk (Paul Womar) wrote:
> 
> >A Pentium on a card that means you can use your mac just like a P166 as
> >well as a mac.
> 
> Okay. Would there be any advantage to using a Pentium card over Soft
> Windows, bearing in mind Soft Windows is about half the price?
> 
Speed!

-- 
'ric

In article <B114D1C996689A800@0.0.0.0>,
dave@wcbs.demon.co.uk (Dave Porter) wrote:

>>I see that Apple 166MHz Pentium cards are selling for �200 ish at the
>>moment.
>
>Okay? What is that exactly?

Its a 'no longer supported' PCI card with a 166Mhz PC on it.

Fits inside your machine and gives you a hardware PC not emulation.

I also am tempted BUT these cards do NOT seem to be supported by Apple any
longer so buyer beware.

Robin

In article <B116D74E96685374@moneypit.demon.co.uk>,
robin@moneypit.demon.co.uk (Robin Jackson) wrote:

[snip]
>Its a 'no longer supported' PCI card with a 166Mhz PC on it.
>
>Fits inside your machine and gives you a hardware PC not emulation.

Does anyone have the faintest idea if this would work with a Power
Computing PowerTower Pro 225?

-- 
A.

In article <1d4vgam.ybs8cdgfjd08N@pwomar.demon.co.uk>,
Newsmaster@pwomar.demon.co.uk (Paul Womar) wrote in answer to Dave Porter's
question:

>Dave Porter <dave@wcbs.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Okay. Would there be any advantage to using a Pentium card over Soft
>> Windows, bearing in mind Soft Windows is about half the price?
>
>Apart from being about ten times faster, no :-)
>AIUI even a 266Mhz G3 will not emalate as fast as a 166Mhz Pentium
>althouh it should be pretty close, Macworld did a comparison of Virtual
>PC, Softwindows and 2 PC cards, the review is available at
>www.macworld.co.uk (although you need to register 1st I think) so if you
>are seriously considering it then take a look, I think I'll probably be
>ordering the card ina  few days so if you want to double up and sut the
>costs a bit, give me a mail.

As you may see from a related thread, after Steve Firth recommended this, I
went on a two day slog using SoftWin to transfer two programmes from CD to
hard disk.  So I am interested too.  But Apple supplier says 166MHz no
longer produced and supported.  Orange do a 266MHz which he thinks is more
expensive than a PC.  So how are you finding the �200 ish one that Steve
mentioned?

Keith



Keith Crook
keith@valperga.demon.co.uk

Adam Lloyd <adam@park78.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Does anyone have the faintest idea if this would work with a Power
> Computing PowerTower Pro 225?

I've seen a bit about clones (seeing as I own one) and all the text
seems to say that it is a standard PCI card so it'll work on any PCI Mac
compatible, the possible problems are that you need a loopback monitor
cable so the ports could be wrong (should be simple to correct) but more
importantly I have heard that (maybe) the CD drivers will not work if
you don't have an Apple CD drive, aprt from that I've seen no mention of
other problems.

robin@moneypit.demon.co.uk (Robin Jackson) wrote:

>>>I see that Apple 166MHz Pentium cards are selling for �200 ish at the
>>>moment.
>>
>>Okay? What is that exactly?
>
>Its a 'no longer supported' PCI card with a 166Mhz PC on it.
>
>Fits inside your machine and gives you a hardware PC not emulation.
>
>I also am tempted BUT these cards do NOT seem to be supported by Apple any
>longer so buyer beware.

How would one tell the difference? 

Ben, the man with recent experience of trying to get support from Apple

-- 
Ben Lovejoy             | For special addresses
ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk | (auto-responder, etc):
www.lovejoy.demon.co.uk | autoresponder@lovejoy.demon.co.uk

In article <1d4x4a2.1irunyg1dl6jggN@firthcom.demon.co.uk>,
filter@firthcom.demon.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:

>If you want a robust PC based solution, buy a PC. If you must cut 'n'
>paste between PC and Mac consider a PC coupled to a Mac using Timbuktoo
>over ethernet.

Alternatively (although less instant) use a Zip on both. At least there are
no practical file size limits for transfers...

-- 
Peter

Keith Crook <keith@valperga.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>  But Apple supplier says 166MHz no
> longer produced and supported.  Orange do a 266MHz which he thinks is more
> expensive than a PC.  So how are you finding the �200 ish one that Steve
> mentioned?

From the prices (about 30% of the original retail price) I suspect that
they are quite simply left over stock that Compu-D is trying to clear
out, Ic an't say I am interested in getting technical support anyway, I
don't recall ever making use of it and I don't intend breaking the
habit!

Steve Firth <filter@firthcom.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In brief, don't expect to run all the latest applications, don't expect
> to get the card upgraded (CPU is soldered on), don't expect to get any
> support if you have problems.

Not bothered about the latter 2, by "the latest applications" do you
mean they might not work due to it being this card or simply because it
is only a P166?

In article <1d4wpuc.17k7zoe15eafegN@pwomar.demon.co.uk>,
Newsmaster@pwomar.demon.co.uk (Paul Womar) wrote:

>> Does anyone have the faintest idea if this would work with a Power
>> Computing PowerTower Pro 225?
>
>I've seen a bit about clones (seeing as I own one) and all the text
>seems to say that it is a standard PCI card so it'll work on any PCI Mac
>compatible, the possible problems are that you need a loopback monitor
>cable so the ports could be wrong (should be simple to correct) 

That shouldn't be too much of a problem: I've got an ATI card with a Mac
and PC monitor port on it, so everything there sounds all right.

>but more
>importantly I have heard that (maybe) the CD drivers will not work if
>you don't have an Apple CD drive, aprt from that I've seen no mention of
>other problems.

Also probably not a problem for me. I've got an old AppleCD 300e lurking
somewhere about, and it worked last time I checked. I shall have to give
this thing some serious consideration, I think.

-- 
Adam Lloyd.

Steve Firth <filter@firthcom.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In brief, don't expect to run all the latest applications, don't expect
> to get the card upgraded (CPU is soldered on), don't expect to get any
> support if you have problems.

One thing I forgot to ask in the other post, should I expect to get and
flavour of Linux/FreeBSD running or accessing the CD drive?

In article <1d4xgpd.11yip2zpm11jaN@pwomar.demon.co.uk>,
Newsmaster@pwomar.demon.co.uk (Paul Womar) wrote:

>> In brief, don't expect to run all the latest applications, don't expect
>> to get the card upgraded (CPU is soldered on), don't expect to get any
>> support if you have problems.
>
>Not bothered about the latter 2, by "the latest applications" do you
>mean they might not work due to it being this card or simply because it
>is only a P166?

Also don't expect 32bit drivers for CD or HD. 

Not now not ever!

Gordon


One of these days I'm going to think of a decent sig line

Steve Firth <filter@firthcom.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Paul Womar <Newsmaster@pwomar.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > One thing I forgot to ask in the other post, should I expect to get and
> > flavour of Linux/FreeBSD running or accessing the CD drive?
> 
> Absolutely not,

I know it sound s abit of an unreasonable thing to expect but
appearently lots of people have had things running on Virtual Pc with no
problems.

> you have to go to MK Linux and run it on the PPC,

Not available for 603e yet, I can get Linux-Pmac running from floppy but
I have to change the monitor to the internal video and boot from floppy
which is a right PITA.

Steve Firth <filter@firthcom.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> No, they may not work because many applications now require 32bit disk
> drivers which the Apple card does not support. Also now that the
> development team has been sent to work on other things they never will
> get an upgrade so the cards probably won't run Win 98.

Orange Micro has recently announced that it is developing 32bit drivers,
which I assume will work with Apple cards.