🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <B0B9EFF796682AA43@lovejoy.demon.co.uk>,
ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk (Ben Lovejoy) wrote:

> With a 2-gig drive (3400c) and a fair number of tiny (<2k) text files to
> copy over from my old machine, partitioning the drive seems like a good
> idea. But (a) I don't know how and (b) I don't really fancy re-installing
> the system et al from a backup.

(a) with the 'Drive Setup' program probably installed in 'Apple Extras'.
(b) can't help you with this one.  Try a motivation programme.

Since you have another Mac, could you copy the System folder from
your PB to the old Mac, repartition the PB, install a minimal
networking system, and copy the original System folder back on ?

My 1400c came with a CD-ROM that contained /everything/ that had
been pre-loaded onto the hard disk.  I partitioned it immediately I
got it out of the box (having had enough experience of Macs to know
I'd want to eventually).  Then I ran the installer from the CD and
pretty soon everything was back on the hard disk again.

> Is there any way of partitioning a drive with data already on it?

No.  Partitioning a disk involves changing how the blocks are
headed.  This will mess up any existing file.  Partitioning
software doesn't even try to preserve the data.  I have heard of
some software that will repartition on the fly but I've never seen
it, don't remember the name or company, it's not free, and it's the
scary type of thing I'd never try.

Simon.
-- 
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   http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk    |                  gag me with a folio.
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Simon Slavin <slavins@hearsay.demon.co.uk.NOJUNK> wrote:

> In article <B0B9EFF796682AA43@lovejoy.demon.co.uk>,
> ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk (Ben Lovejoy) wrote:
> 
[snip]
> > Is there any way of partitioning a drive with data already on it?
> 
> No.  Partitioning a disk involves changing how the blocks are
> headed.  This will mess up any existing file.  Partitioning
> software doesn't even try to preserve the data.  I have heard of
> some software that will repartition on the fly but I've never seen
> it, don't remember the name or company, it's not free, and it's the
> scary type of thing I'd never try.

I *think* the Charis Mac Anubis software does this.  The manual isn't
explicit on the point, and it's not the sort of thing I'd like to try
`just to see'.

Rowland.

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In article <1d1e5sh.1i3df861pcnkowN@p54.nas2.is3.u-net.net>,
real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar (Rebecca and wrote:

snip

>> > Is there any way of partitioning a drive with data already on it?

snip

>I *think* the Charis Mac Anubis software does this.  The manual isn't
>explicit on the point, and it's not the sort of thing I'd like to try
>`just to see'.

I did. It didn't. Anubis V2.54u.  Ah well.

Keith

Keith Crook
keith@valperga.demon.co.uk

Keith Crook <keith@valperga.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <1d1e5sh.1i3df861pcnkowN@p54.nas2.is3.u-net.net>,
> real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar (Rebecca and wrote:
> 
> snip
> 
> >> > Is there any way of partitioning a drive with data already on it?
> 
> snip
> 
> >I *think* the Charis Mac Anubis software does this.  The manual isn't
> >explicit on the point, and it's not the sort of thing I'd like to try
> >`just to see'.
> 
> I did. It didn't. Anubis V2.54u.  Ah well.

Ah well indeed - thanks for being brave and trying it.

Rowland.

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In article <B0BC91F9966815B833@0.0.0.0>,
slavins@hearsay.demon.co.uk.NOJUNK (Simon Slavin) wrote:

>Subject: Re: Partitioning a disk with data on it
>From: Simon Slavin
>Organization: First Sirian Bank
>Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:15:53 +0000
>Newsgroups: demon.tech.mac
>
>In article <B0B9EFF796682AA43@lovejoy.demon.co.uk>,
>ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk (Ben Lovejoy) wrote:
>
>> With a 2-gig drive (3400c) and a fair number of tiny (<2k) text files to
>> copy over from my old machine, partitioning the drive seems like a good
>> idea. But (a) I don't know how and (b) I don't really fancy re-installing
>> the system et al from a backup.
>
>(a) with the 'Drive Setup' program probably installed in 'Apple Extras'.
>(b) can't help you with this one.  Try a motivation programme.
>
>Since you have another Mac, could you copy the System folder from
>your PB to the old Mac, repartition the PB, install a minimal
>networking system, and copy the original System folder back on ?
>
>My 1400c came with a CD-ROM that contained /everything/ that had
>been pre-loaded onto the hard disk.  I partitioned it immediately I
>got it out of the box (having had enough experience of Macs to know
>I'd want to eventually).  Then I ran the installer from the CD and
>pretty soon everything was back on the hard disk again.
>
>> Is there any way of partitioning a drive with data already on it?
>
>No.  Partitioning a disk involves changing how the blocks are
>headed.  This will mess up any existing file.  Partitioning
>software doesn't even try to preserve the data.  I have heard of
>some software that will repartition on the fly but I've never seen
>it, don't remember the name or company, it's not free, and it's the
>scary type of thing I'd never try.
>
>Simon.

I resized one of my partitions on the fly using Hard Disk Toolkit. It only
took about 5 minutes and no data was lost in the process. Unfortunately it
isn't what Ben wants to do so it's of no help at all. Sorry.

Next time you're up here, I'll back up your HD onto a CD for you and then
you can partition the thing, you can buy the beer while we're waiting.
How's that?

Gordon


One of these days I'm going to think of a decent sig line

slavins@hearsay.demon.co.uk.NOJUNK (Simon Slavin) wrote:

>Since you have another Mac, could you copy the System folder from
>your PB to the old Mac, repartition the PB, install a minimal
>networking system, and copy the original System folder back on ?

The system folder on the 3400 is bigger than the entire hard drive on the
150! (170Mb, 120Mb.)

>My 1400c came with a CD-ROM that contained /everything/ that had
>been pre-loaded onto the hard disk.  I partitioned it immediately I
>got it out of the box 

Yup, that's what I should have done. Ho hum.

Ben

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nospam@nospam.kenner.demon.co.uk (Chris Orgill) wrote:

>> Is there any way of partitioning a drive with data already on it?

>Yes. You need to defragment the disk and then use a tool that
>supports re-partitioning. I think FWB's Hard Disk Toolkit may allow
>you to do this.

Ta, but I've now been advised that System 8 will solve the problem of
minimum block sizes, and I'm pretty likely to take the plunge and do the
upgrade soon, so I'll wait until then.

Thanks for the info, though.

Ben

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In article <B0BFF4C19668CC87@lovejoy.demon.co.uk>,
ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk (Ben Lovejoy) wrote:


>Ta, but I've now been advised that System 8 will solve the problem of
>minimum block sizes, and I'm pretty likely to take the plunge and do the
>upgrade soon, so I'll wait until then.

I understand that 8.1 will have a new filing system.  But it'll still
almost certainly mean reformatting the disk.  But then I wouldn't try
creating new partitions without a backup either - even if I had software
that claimed to be able to do that.

--
"Hullo clouds, hullo sky, hullo pile of severed human heads," said Major
Basil Fotherington-Thomas.
(Eugene Byrne & Kim Newman "Teddy-Bear's Picnic")

Replace "nospam" with "morat" to reply

Paul K.

In article <1d1e5sh.1i3df861pcnkowN@p54.nas2.is3.u-net.net>,
real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar (Rebecca and wrote:

> I *think* the Charis Mac Anubis software does this.  The manual isn't
> explicit on the point, and

I'm not letting anything named after the Egyptian God of death near
my Mac !

> it's not the sort of thing I'd like to try
> `just to see'.

Absolutely.  I'd want to take a backup first which defeats the object
of the excersize.

Simon.
-- 
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   http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk    |                  gag me with a folio.
Check email address for spam-guard.  | -- sclerc@ernie.bgsu.edu (Susan Clerc)
Junk email not welcome at this site. | I receive about 2.5 junk emails a day.

Ben Lovejoy <ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Ta, but I've now been advised that System 8 will solve the problem of
> minimum block sizes, 

I don't think so, System 8.1 with HFS+ support may though.

In article <B0BF19269668E535@0.0.0.0>,
gordon@glaurie.demon.co.uk (Gordon Laurie) wrote:

> I'll back up your HD onto a CD for you and then
> you can partition the thing, you can buy the beer while we're waiting.

Strangely enough, I have a CD-writer on order for exactly that
purpose (works out cheaper than a Jazz drive).  I'll but you the
beer anyway, though.

Simon.
-- 
Simon Slavin -- Computer Contractor. | Excessive quoting from Shakespeare:
   http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk    |                  gag me with a folio.
Check email address for spam-guard.  | -- sclerc@ernie.bgsu.edu (Susan Clerc)
Junk email not welcome at this site. | I receive about 2.5 junk emails a day.

gordon@glaurie.demon.co.uk (Gordon Laurie) wrote:

>Next time you're up here, I'll back up your HD onto a CD for you and then
>you can partition the thing, you can buy the beer while we're waiting.
>How's that?

Sounds like an excellent idea, though at CD speeds that could be an awful
lot of beer. :-)

I've just bought the new SyQuest EZ Flyer 230 for the ridiculously cheap
price of 109 quid plus VAT, so even with 700Mb used to date it shouldn't be
too much of a task to backup to several 230Mb cartridges and then copy
back, but ...

How does this business work in regards to the System Folder? Can I delete
it, format and partition the drive, reboot from a SyQuest/CD and then just
copy the System Folder back?

Ben

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In article <B0C1EB32966819869C@0.0.0.0>,
slavins@hearsay.demon.co.uk.NOJUNK (Simon Slavin) wrote:

>> I'll back up your HD onto a CD for you and then
>> you can partition the thing, you can buy the beer while we're waiting.
>
>Strangely enough, I have a CD-writer on order for exactly that
>purpose (works out cheaper than a Jazz drive).  I'll but you the
>beer anyway, though.

That's very kind of you Simon. Here's to your health %-)

Gordon


One of these days I'm going to think of a decent sig line

In article <B0C32DED9668EE8F5@lovejoy.demon.co.uk>,
ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk (Ben Lovejoy) wrote:

>How does this business work in regards to the System Folder? Can I delete
>it, format and partition the drive, reboot from a SyQuest/CD and then just
>copy the System Folder back?

It certainly seems to work from a Zip (once I'd sorted out the blessing of
the system folder). Should be fine from a Syquest.

-- 
Peter

Ben Lovejoy <ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> How does this business work in regards to the System Folder? Can I delete
> it, format and partition the drive, reboot from a SyQuest/CD and then just
> copy the System Folder back?

That should be okay.

Rowland.

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gordon@glaurie.demon.co.uk (Gordon Laurie) wrote:

>Next time you're up here, I'll back up your HD onto a CD for you and then
>you can partition the thing, you can buy the beer while we're waiting.
>How's that?

Sounds like an excellent idea, though at CD speeds that could be an awful
lot of beer. :-)

I've just bought the new SyQuest EZ Flyer 230 for the ridiculously cheap
price of 109 quid plus VAT, so even with 700Mb used to date it shouldn't be
too much of a task to backup to several 230Mb cartridges and then copy
back, but ...

How does this business work in regards to the System Folder? Can I delete
it, format and partition the drive, reboot from a SyQuest/CD and then just
copy the System Folder back?

Ben

-- 
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In article <B0C32DED9668EE8F5@lovejoy.demon.co.uk>,
ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk (Ben Lovejoy) wrote:

>>Next time you're up here, I'll back up your HD onto a CD for you and then
>>you can partition the thing, you can buy the beer while we're waiting.
>>How's that?
>
>Sounds like an excellent idea, though at CD speeds that could be an awful
>lot of beer. :-)

>How does this business work in regards to the System Folder? Can I delete
>it, format and partition the drive, reboot from a SyQuest/CD and then just
>copy the System Folder back?

It would be quite a lot of beer in any case %-)

Yes. Basically that works. I have a nice, clean well sorted out System
folder that I keep on a CD and if (when) the machine gets its knickers
really twisted I just restart from a floppy, trash the old System folder
and drag that one back onto the HD. Even MS Office keeps working with it!

Gordon


One of these days I'm going to think of a decent sig line

peter@cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) wrote:

>>How does this business work in regards to the System Folder? Can I delete
>>it, format and partition the drive, reboot from a SyQuest/CD and then just
>>copy the System Folder back?

>It certainly seems to work from a Zip (once I'd sorted out the blessing of
>the system folder). Should be fine from a Syquest.

It was - after I was forced into it!

The 3400 refused to boot, giving a variety of errors - Type 10s, 'Chk's,
just hanging ... All very odd, because it booted fine on Sunday and not on
the Monday. No installations or system-type alterations in the meantime.

Anyway, fortunately this was all two days after my SyQuest arrived, so
everything was backed up. I thus reformatted the drive, created five
partitions and copied the system back on, blessing it just by opening &
closing it as someone suggested should work. Only ... the machine had
suddenly turned into a 512. There was about a 1.5 second delay between
clicking on something and the machine taking any action.

So I called the Apple Helpline. 33 minutes of hold music later, I spoke to
someone who knew less about partitioning hard drives than I do, and that's
a pretty impressive achievement. She refused to escalate the call, saying
calls on the 90-day free support contract are only dealt with on her floor.
One call to Customer Services later and they agreed to put me through to
someone who knew what they were talking about. Interestingly, this was not
an Apple employee, but a dealer.

Anyway, the upshot is that partitioning larger drives (mine's 2-gig)
carries a significant speed-hit on the IDE drives used in PowerBooks. The
Mac apparently has to search each partition separately everytime you
double-click on something. It seemingly has no way of knowing that you've
just double-clicked on something in partition 3, it checks the lot!

The solution was to create just two partitions, a 100Mb one for all my tiny
text files (lots of little snippits at 2k or less, which were talking up
32k blocks), and the other one for the rest of the volume.

Apple also advised that there is a bug in system 7.6 which effects
PowerBooks, and suggested I upgrade either to 7.6.1 or directly to 8.

Oh, and my Internet sigs seemed to be the only thing I missed in the
backup, hence the absence of any.

Ben

gordon@glaurie.demon.co.uk (Gordon Laurie) wrote:

>>How does this business work in regards to the System Folder? Can I delete
>>it, format and partition the drive, reboot from a SyQuest/CD and then just
>>copy the System Folder back?

>Yes. Basically that works. I have a nice, clean well sorted out System
>folder that I keep on a CD and if (when) the machine gets its knickers
>really twisted I just restart from a floppy, trash the old System folder
>and drag that one back onto the HD. Even MS Office keeps working with it!

Now that I can backup my entire drive with just four SyQuest cartridges,
I've got no excuse for failing to do it on a regular basis, so I must get
into the habit. Also, as someone commented, keep more than one generation
of backup.

Ben
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Ben Lovejoy <ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]
> closing it as someone suggested should work. Only ... the machine had
> suddenly turned into a 512. There was about a 1.5 second delay between
> clicking on something and the machine taking any action.

I'll have you know that my 512Ke running System 2.0 has the fastest
response time of any Mac I've ever met; it's pretty quick running System
6, too.  And how does booting *and* launching MacWrite in under 15
seconds grab you?

So maybe it *is* a museum piece; it doesn't hang about.

> So I called the Apple Helpline. 33 minutes of hold music later, I spoke to
> someone who knew less about partitioning hard drives than I do, and that's
> a pretty impressive achievement. She refused to escalate the call, saying
> calls on the 90-day free support contract are only dealt with on her floor.
> One call to Customer Services later and they agreed to put me through to
> someone who knew what they were talking about. Interestingly, this was not
> an Apple employee, but a dealer.

Curious - glad to know that there *is* a way of getting to talk to
someone with a brain at Apple.  Every time I tried ringing them on the
90 day free support business, I got no joy at all.

[snip]

Rowland.

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In article <B0C5E8879668BEA0E@0.0.0.0>,
ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk (Ben Lovejoy) wrote:

>Apple also advised that there is a bug in system 7.6 which effects
>PowerBooks, and suggested I upgrade either to 7.6.1 or directly to 8.
>
>Oh, and my Internet sigs seemed to be the only thing I missed in the
>backup, hence the absence of any.

Get 8! You should get a hefty discount on it since you've got a newish
machine in any case (in fact, I'd have thought that it would come as
standard with it?) not only is it the best OS since 7.1 but it's also about
to be upgraded to HFS Plus in early january, so your need to partition
should be killed off stone dead!

Gordon


One of these days I'm going to think of a decent sig line

Gordon Laurie <gordon@glaurie.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <B0C5E8879668BEA0E@0.0.0.0>,
> ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk (Ben Lovejoy) wrote:
> 
> >Apple also advised that there is a bug in system 7.6 which effects
> >PowerBooks, and suggested I upgrade either to 7.6.1 or directly to 8.

the B1-7.6.1 update is available at http://www.apple.com and the August
1997 Macworld CD-ROM - a bit cheaper than OS8.

> >Oh, and my Internet sigs seemed to be the only thing I missed in the
> >backup, hence the absence of any.
> 
> Get 8! You should get a hefty discount on it since you've got a newish
> machine in any case (in fact, I'd have thought that it would come as
> standard with it?) 

If the discount for newish machines is anything like the discount for
those of us who bought 7.6, it's about �20.  Not a lot, really.

> not only is it the best OS since 7.1

Speaking as someone who went straight from 7.1 to 7.6: erm, no it isn't.
7.6 is so much faster and more stable especially when internetting on my
Performa 475 that 7.1 doesn't really get a look-in.

> but it's also about
> to be upgraded to HFS Plus in early january, so your need to partition
> should be killed off stone dead!

Yes, but you will have to re-format your HD to use HFS+ AFAIK.

Rowland.

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gordon@glaurie.demon.co.uk (Gordon Laurie) wrote:

>Get 8! You should get a hefty discount on it since you've got a newish
>machine in any case (in fact, I'd have thought that it would come as
>standard with it?) not only is it the best OS since 7.1 but it's also about
>to be upgraded to HFS Plus in early january, so your need to partition
>should be killed off stone dead!

Apple sent me a mag which said I could get it free, but everyone else at
Apple is denying all knowledge. But I'll await HFS Plus anyway.

Ben
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real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar (Rebecca and wrote:

>> closing it as someone suggested should work. Only ... the machine had
>> suddenly turned into a 512. There was about a 1.5 second delay between
>> clicking on something and the machine taking any action.

>I'll have you know that my 512Ke running System 2.0 has the fastest
>response time of any Mac I've ever met

Please give your 512 my humblest apologies, and tell it I'm glad there are
still machines of its ilk going strong.

>> So I called the Apple Helpline. 33 minutes of hold music later, I spoke to
>> someone who knew less about partitioning hard drives than I do, and that's
>> a pretty impressive achievement. She refused to escalate the call, saying
>> calls on the 90-day free support contract are only dealt with on her floor.
>> One call to Customer Services later and they agreed to put me through to
>> someone who knew what they were talking about. Interestingly, this was not
>> an Apple employee, but a dealer.

>Curious - glad to know that there *is* a way of getting to talk to
>someone with a brain at Apple.

Call Customer Services, and try the 'more in puzzlement than in anger'
line.

Ben
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Ben Lovejoy <ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar (Rebecca and wrote:
> 
> >> closing it as someone suggested should work. Only ... the machine had
> >> suddenly turned into a 512. There was about a 1.5 second delay between
> >> clicking on something and the machine taking any action.
> 
> >I'll have you know that my 512Ke running System 2.0 has the fastest
> >response time of any Mac I've ever met
> 
> Please give your 512 my humblest apologies, and tell it I'm glad there are
> still machines of its ilk going strong.

Apology accepted - it's chuffed to bits ;-)  I'll be LocalTalking the
wee beastie as soon as I get my sticky mits on an 8-way mini-DIN line
socket.  I might even work out a way for it to print on my DW520 - the
size of the driver software seems to be a bit of a problem here, but...

[snip]

> >Curious - glad to know that there *is* a way of getting to talk to
> >someone with a brain at Apple.
> 
> Call Customer Services, and try the 'more in puzzlement than in anger'
> line.

Noted - thanks :-)

Rowland.

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Ben Lovejoy <ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> gordon@glaurie.demon.co.uk (Gordon Laurie) wrote:
> 
> >Get 8! You should get a hefty discount on it since you've got a newish
> >machine in any case (in fact, I'd have thought that it would come as
> >standard with it?) not only is it the best OS since 7.1 but it's also about
> >to be upgraded to HFS Plus in early january, so your need to partition
> >should be killed off stone dead!
> 
> Apple sent me a mag which said I could get it free, but everyone else at
> Apple is denying all knowledge. But I'll await HFS Plus anyway.
> 
> Ben

I got system 8 free. It involved getting an order form from the Apple
Web site (can't remeber URL) which is in PDF format and includes who can
update for free. Basically it is everyone who bought a new Mac in the
last six months of last year. The order form then had to be sent to
Claris (in Dublin for the UK) together with proof of purchase for the
Mac.

Nigel
-- 
Nigel Coke-Woods
Methodist Minister
S.W. Cumbria Methodist Circuit, Millom, Cumbria UK.
Nigel@cokery.demon.co.uk   http://www.Cokery.demon.co.uk 

Rebecca and Rowland <real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar>
wrote:
[]
> I'll have you know that my 512Ke running System 2.0 has the fastest
> response time of any Mac I've ever met; it's pretty quick running System
> 6, too.  And how does booting *and* launching MacWrite in under 15
> seconds grab you?
> 
> So maybe it *is* a museum piece; it doesn't hang about.

For a *really* fast museum piece, try running Sys 6 on a IIci
(AFAIK the latest Mac to support it).... :-)

rgds, Alan

In article <B0CC5021966843958@lovejoy.demon.co.uk>,
ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk (Ben Lovejoy) wrote:

> gordon@glaurie.demon.co.uk (Gordon Laurie) wrote:
> 
> >Get 8! [snip]
> 
> Apple sent me a mag which said I could get it free, but everyone else at
> Apple is denying all knowledge.

Apple don't know about it.  Claris do.  Phone them if you want it.

> But I'll await HFS Plus anyway.

Me too.  Changing System versions is a big hassle for me and I'm
sticking to 7.6.1 until I can take advantage of HFS+.

Simon.
-- 
Simon Slavin -- Computer Contractor. | Excessive quoting from Shakespeare:
   http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk    |                  gag me with a folio.
Check email address for spam-guard.  | -- sclerc@ernie.bgsu.edu (Susan Clerc)
Junk email not welcome at this site. | I receive about 2.5 junk emails a day.

Nigel@cokery.demon.co.uk (Rev. Nigel Coke-Woods) wrote:

[System 8]
>> Apple sent me a mag which said I could get it free, but everyone else at
>> Apple is denying all knowledge. But I'll await HFS Plus anyway.

>I got system 8 free. It involved getting an order form from the Apple
>Web site (can't remeber URL) which is in PDF format and includes who can
>update for free. Basically it is everyone who bought a new Mac in the
>last six months of last year. The order form then had to be sent to
>Claris (in Dublin for the UK) together with proof of purchase for the
>Mac.

Good grief - I think I'd rather pay!

Ben
-- 
Ben Lovejoy             | For special addresses
ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk | (auto-responder, etc):
www.lovejoy.demon.co.uk | autoresponder@lovejoy.demon.co.uk

Alan W. Frame <alan.frame@acm.org> wrote:

> Rebecca and Rowland <real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar>
> wrote:
> []
> > I'll have you know that my 512Ke running System 2.0 has the fastest
> > response time of any Mac I've ever met; it's pretty quick running System
> > 6, too.  And how does booting *and* launching MacWrite in under 15
> > seconds grab you?
> > 
> > So maybe it *is* a museum piece; it doesn't hang about.
> 
> For a *really* fast museum piece, try running Sys 6 on a IIci
> (AFAIK the latest Mac to support it).... :-)

I suspect you'd get the fastest response from a Mac II running System
2.0 - System 6.0.8 is much more sluggish on my 512Ke than System 2.0.
(Yes, it really *does* run System 6.0.8; I was amazed too.  It's a shame
there's not really enough RAM to do anything useful with it.)

Rowland.

-- 
Remove the animal for my email address:   rebecca@astrid.dog.u-net.com
Sorry - the spam got to me.          
PGP pub key A680B89D; fingerprint: F5605EAE F56F2C0B 818F3319 5227767F
                                   What?  Don't ask me - I don't know.

In article <B0CF29FA9668178D42@hearsay.demon.co.uk>,
slavins@hearsay.demon.co.uk.NOJUNK (Simon Slavin) wrote:

>> But I'll await HFS Plus anyway.
>
>Me too.  Changing System versions is a big hassle for me and I'm
>sticking to 7.6.1 until I can take advantage of HFS+.

What hassle? I've changed from 7.5.2 with every update through to 8.0, I
can't say that there have been any major hassles at all, except that 7.6.1
and 8.0 have crashed a whole lot less than the rest........

Gordon


One of these days I'm going to think of a decent sig line

Rebecca and Rowland <real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar>
wrote:

> Alan W. Frame <alan.frame@acm.org> wrote:
> 
> > Rebecca and Rowland <real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar>
> > wrote:
> > []
> > > I'll have you know that my 512Ke running System 2.0 has the fastest
> > > response time of any Mac I've ever met; it's pretty quick running System
> > > 6, too.  And how does booting *and* launching MacWrite in under 15
> > > seconds grab you?
> > > 
> > > So maybe it *is* a museum piece; it doesn't hang about.
> > 
> > For a *really* fast museum piece, try running Sys 6 on a IIci
> > (AFAIK the latest Mac to support it).... :-)
> 
> I suspect you'd get the fastest response from a Mac II running System
> 2.0 - System 6.0.8 is much more sluggish on my 512Ke than System 2.0.
> (Yes, it really *does* run System 6.0.8; I was amazed too.  It's a shame
> there's not really enough RAM to do anything useful with it.)
> 
I've got a IIfx downstairs, anyone know the lowest supported system?

Talking of speed brings up a rather interesting point. When I first got
the machine, I benchmarked it and then did a clean install of 7.1 and
the benchmarks fell by around 30%. I finally tracked this down to the
A/ROSE extension, so beware if you've got this installed, life could be
slower than it needs be.

-- 
'ric

Simon Slavin <slavins@hearsay.demon.co.uk.NOJUNK> wrote:

> In article <B0CC5021966843958@lovejoy.demon.co.uk>,
> ben@lovejoy.demon.co.uk (Ben Lovejoy) wrote:
> 
> > gordon@glaurie.demon.co.uk (Gordon Laurie) wrote:
> > 
> > >Get 8! [snip]
> > 
> > Apple sent me a mag which said I could get it free, but everyone else at
> > Apple is denying all knowledge.
> 
> Apple don't know about it.  Claris do.  Phone them if you want it.
> 
> > But I'll await HFS Plus anyway.
> 
> Me too.  Changing System versions is a big hassle for me and I'm
> sticking to 7.6.1 until I can take advantage of HFS+.
> 
> Simon.

Does anyone know if it is still possible to pickup copies of 7.6.1?
I'm beginning to get "green-with" symptoms. I still have 7.1!
I don't want to go to 8 just yet.

-- 
Regards,   Shane.
"A closed mouth gathers no feet!"

ric <btgsch@rmplc.co.uk> wrote:
[]
> I've got a IIfx downstairs, anyone know the lowest supported system?

Off the top of my head, probably 6.0.3 or 6.0.4.

>I finally tracked this down to the
>A/ROSE extension, so beware if you've got this installed, life could be
>slower than it needs be.

Ah yes, did anyone actually need/use that?

rgds, Alan

ric <btgsch@rmplc.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> I've got a IIfx downstairs, anyone know the lowest supported system?

According to a document I've got from Apple,

System Software 6.0.5             Release for Macintosh IIfx (1990)

According to (very out-of-date) the comp.sys.mac.hardware FAQ,

Mac IIfx
Processor: M68030 40 MHz, M68882 FPU 40 MHz
System:    6.0.5-7.1

Another document I have agrees with System 6.0.5 as the earliest system
version.

(I've been mis-lead by too many apparently authoritative documents
recently to place too much faith in anything.  In particular, never,
ever, ever buy a Clymer workshop manual; and don't trust anything from
Apple unless it's repeated.)

But it does sound like you need the Classic Macs mailing list:

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_______________________________________________________

> Talking of speed brings up a rather interesting point. When I first got
> the machine, I benchmarked it and then did a clean install of 7.1 and
> the benchmarks fell by around 30%. I finally tracked this down to the
> A/ROSE extension, so beware if you've got this installed, life could be
> slower than it needs be.

Curious; what does this extension do?  (I've not seen it, you see).

Rowland.

-- 
Remove the animal for my email address:   rebecca@astrid.dog.u-net.com
Sorry - the spam got to me.          
PGP pub key A680B89D; fingerprint: F5605EAE F56F2C0B 818F3319 5227767F
                                   What?  Don't ask me - I don't know.

Gordon Laurie <gordon@glaurie.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <B0CF29FA9668178D42@hearsay.demon.co.uk>,
> slavins@hearsay.demon.co.uk.NOJUNK (Simon Slavin) wrote:
> 
> >> But I'll await HFS Plus anyway.
> >
> >Me too.  Changing System versions is a big hassle for me and I'm
> >sticking to 7.6.1 until I can take advantage of HFS+.
> 
> What hassle?

A man with no third-party extensions, obviously...

> I've changed from 7.5.2 with every update through to 8.0, I
> can't say that there have been any major hassles at all, except that 7.6.1
> and 8.0 have crashed a whole lot less than the rest........

Well, I went from 7.1 to 7.6, and it took *ages* to re-install clean
copies of all the various third-party extensions and control panels I
use, get newer versions (or different extensions in the case of those
that broke and didn't have newer versions available), clean out all the
pointless crap that Apple's terminally hopeless installer had dumped in
my System folder, and so on.

Rowland.

-- 
Remove the animal for my email address:   rebecca@astrid.dog.u-net.com
Sorry - the spam got to me.          
PGP pub key A680B89D; fingerprint: F5605EAE F56F2C0B 818F3319 5227767F
                                   What?  Don't ask me - I don't know.

Rebecca and Rowland <real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar>
wrote:
[]
> Well, I went from 7.1 to 7.6, and it took *ages* to re-install clean
> copies of all the various third-party extensions and control panels I
> use, get newer versions (or different extensions in the case of those
> that broke and didn't have newer versions available), clean out all the
> pointless crap that Apple's terminally hopeless installer had dumped in
> my System folder, and so on.

Can I have a quick spleen-vent about fsking stupid comms software
installers that can't be bothered to work out what modem I've got
(or even be sensible enough to ask me) and insist on installing 
a zillion CLLs[1]?

AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

There, I feel better now.
Oh bugger, I've just looked in the Printer Descriptions folder....:-(

On that point, why on earth does OT need so many discrete shared
lib files? - Have Apple forgotten what the Res manager does?

rgds, Alan
[1] Including the Apple Modem 2400 for goodness sake!

In article <1d2937t.qmz4fp1mfbe6gN@p50.nas2.is2.u-net.net>,
real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar (Rebecca and wrote:

>From: Rebecca and Rowland
>Organization: The Pietertje Geeltje van der Sluis fan club

Never heard of him (?)


>> What hassle?
>
>A man with no third-party extensions, obviously...

In my dreams mate. I have 4 rows of extensions at startup.

>> I've changed from 7.5.2 with every update through to 8.0, I
>> can't say that there have been any major hassles at all, except that 7.6.1
>> and 8.0 have crashed a whole lot less than the rest........
>
>Well, I went from 7.1 to 7.6, and it took *ages* to re-install clean
>copies of all the various third-party extensions and control panels I
>use, get newer versions (or different extensions in the case of those
>that broke and didn't have newer versions available), clean out all the
>pointless crap that Apple's terminally hopeless installer had dumped in
>my System folder, and so on.

This simply hasn't happened in my experience, the only thing that I
remember breaking was Popup Folder under OS 8.

 I never used crap like After Dark, Greg's Buttons, Now Utilities etc etc
so maybe that's how I avoided most of the hassles you mention.

As far as Apple installers go, I tend to do custom installs whenever
possible to avoid the problems you mention, Conflict Catcher is handy for
dumping useless stuff from just one menu as well. 

Overall I don't think that any update to a System has taken more than half
an hour.



Gordon


One of these days I'm going to think of a decent sig line

Rebecca and Rowland <real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar>
wrote:

> ric <btgsch@rmplc.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
Big Snip
> 
> > Talking of speed brings up a rather interesting point. When I first got
> > the machine, I benchmarked it and then did a clean install of 7.1 and
> > the benchmarks fell by around 30%. I finally tracked this down to the
> > A/ROSE extension, so beware if you've got this installed, life could be
> > slower than it needs be.
> 
> Curious; what does this extension do?  (I've not seen it, you see).
> 
It's the Apple Real Time Operating System Extensdion, which is
used by some NuBus boards, specifically Token Ring Network Cards.
All I can think is that it frequently polls the board, reducing
available CPU.
-- 
'ric

Gordon Laurie <gordon@glaurie.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <1d2937t.qmz4fp1mfbe6gN@p50.nas2.is2.u-net.net>,
> real-address-in-sig@flurbletigibbet.rhubarb.foobar (Rebecca and wrote:
> 
> >From: Rebecca and Rowland
> >Organization: The Pietertje Geeltje van der Sluis fan club
> 
> Never heard of him (?)

I can tell - it's a her.

> >> What hassle?
> >
> >A man with no third-party extensions, obviously...
> 
> In my dreams mate. I have 4 rows of extensions at startup.

Clearly careful in your choice of extensions (either that, or a very
small monitor ;-)

[snip]

> This simply hasn't happened in my experience, the only thing that I
> remember breaking was Popup Folder under OS 8.
>
>  I never used crap like After Dark, Greg's Buttons, Now Utilities etc etc
> so maybe that's how I avoided most of the hassles you mention.

Ah...  There was quite a lot that needed changing going from 7.1 to 7.6;
I've not used After Dark, Greg's Buttons and anything like that either.
Some things like SuperClock could simply be dropped; others like
MenuDropper broke and needed replacing (this is from memory).  A long
slow tedious process of testing each extension, fiddling around, maybe
finding a new one, etc.  And then it took *much* longer to deal with the
flaky system I had afterwards - solved (in the end) by zapping the PRAM,
something I'd not had to do before.

> As far as Apple installers go, I tend to do custom installs whenever
> possible to avoid the problems you mention, 

<gritted teeth>  It was the custom install using the 7.6 installer that
dumped the crap in my System Folder - it just ignored what I told it to
do and installed every bloody thing in sight, for PowerPC Macs and all
(I've got a 60LC040 Perform 475).  The standard install was much better.

>Conflict Catcher is handy for
> dumping useless stuff from just one menu as well. 
> 
> Overall I don't think that any update to a System has taken more than half
> an hour.

Installling System 7.6 took me several hours in the first place, several
hours on a subsequent day to deal with the various broken and obsolete
extensions etc., and much longer than that to find out which things I
could safely remove from the extensions folder.  Maybe if you've gone
from 7.5 to 7.5.x to 7.6 you won't have had any problems like going from
7.1 to 7.6.  And maybe the custom install actually *works* on PPCs.

Rowland.

-- 
Remove the animal for my email address:   rebecca@astrid.dog.u-net.com
Sorry - the spam got to me.          
PGP pub key A680B89D; fingerprint: F5605EAE F56F2C0B 818F3319 5227767F
                                   What?  Don't ask me - I don't know.

In article <1d2cxd7.1owk3v91jww25eN@p47.nas2.is3.u-net.net>,

>> >From: Rebecca and Rowland
>> >Organization: The Pietertje Geeltje van der Sluis fan club
>> 
>> Never heard of him (?)
>
>I can tell - it's a her.

Oops :-)

>> In my dreams mate. I have 4 rows of extensions at startup.
>
>Clearly careful in your choice of extensions (either that, or a very
>small monitor ;-)

I say, steady on. It's not good form to poke fun at the size of my monitor.
Actually it's a Sony 15" @1020*something or other.

>Ah...  There was quite a lot that needed changing going from 7.1 to 7.6;

Didn't do that on this machine, obviously since it won't run less than
7.5.2, but on my old IIvx I went from 7.1 to 7.5 then to 7.6, again, I
don't remember all that hassle.

>Some things like SuperClock could simply be dropped; others like
>MenuDropper broke and needed replacing (this is from memory).  A long
>slow tedious process of testing each extension, fiddling around, maybe
>finding a new one, etc.  And then it took *much* longer to deal with the
>flaky system I had afterwards - solved (in the end) by zapping the PRAM,
>something I'd not had to do before.

I must have been very lucky, although then the 'vx only had about 5 megs so
I tended not to run almost any extensions.

>> As far as Apple installers go, I tend to do custom installs whenever
>> possible to avoid the problems you mention, 
>
><gritted teeth>  It was the custom install using the 7.6 installer that
>dumped the crap in my System Folder - it just ignored what I told it to
>do and installed every bloody thing in sight, for PowerPC Macs and all
>(I've got a 60LC040 Perform 475).  The standard install was much better.

Heh, heh. Sorry to hear that. 

>Installling System 7.6 took me several hours in the first place, several
>hours on a subsequent day to deal with the various broken and obsolete
>extensions etc., and much longer than that to find out which things I
>could safely remove from the extensions folder.  Maybe if you've gone
>from 7.5 to 7.5.x to 7.6 you won't have had any problems like going from
>7.1 to 7.6.  And maybe the custom install actually *works* on PPCs.

As you say, maybe I was lucky in the way I upgraded or maybe you were
unlucky. Either way, at least going from 7.6 to 8 is painless. I'm quite
looking forward to 8.1 now too, although I'd expect that to break a few
bits'n'bobs.


Gordon


One of these days I'm going to think of a decent sig line

It appears that there /will/ be a utility to turn an HFS disk
into an HFS+ disk with the data remaining in place.  See

     http://www.zdnet.com/macweek/mw_1201/nw_alsoft.html

Simon.
-- 
Simon Slavin -- Computer Contractor. | If I ran usenet, the timestamp for
   http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk    | anything posted between 2am and 5am
 Check email address for UBE-guard.  | would *blink*. -- Nancy Lebovitz
My s/ware deletes unread >3 UBEs/day.| Junk email not welcome at this site.