🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <956706153.20018.0.nnrp-12.9e9873a0@news.demon.co.uk> "lesstif" <lesstif@hotmail.com> writes:
>anyone using ADSL trial with linux?
>
>pls post info, pointers, help etc

I mailed Demon helpdesk to ask about non-Windows /Mac OSes but they weren't
helpful. The FAQ mentions that BT will install a router/modem device which
surely should be configured like any other router, thus you could tell Linux
that it is your default route and off you go?
I'd be interested in using ASDL via Solaris at work but without any helpful
pointers from Demon, I have no intention of installing it.

It's a shame the helpdesk take this approach, whatever happened to Neil
'freebsd' McRae (sp?)

cheers

jsm

>I mailed Demon helpdesk to ask about non-Windows /Mac OSes but they weren't
>helpful. The FAQ mentions that BT will install a router/modem device which
>surely should be configured like any other router, thus you could tell Linux
>that it is your default route and off you go?
>I'd be interested in using ASDL via Solaris at work but without any helpful
>pointers from Demon, I have no intention of installing it.
>
>It's a shame the helpdesk take this approach, whatever happened to Neil
>'freebsd' McRae (sp?)

I've actually heard rumours that the bog-standard BT-supplied ADSL
service, as recently announced, will supply a USB modem with drivers for
95/98 only... That can't be good, seeing as I don't have one of those,
and don't particularly wish to use the other... :)
-- 
   * Ascender *  (Phil Stoneman)
 ascender [at] tjsathome.demon.co.uk
   telnet://dominion.net.uk:2468

Ascender <ascender@seethesig.com> wrote:
>>I mailed Demon helpdesk to ask about non-Windows /Mac OSes but they weren't
>>helpful. The FAQ mentions that BT will install a router/modem device which
>>surely should be configured like any other router, thus you could tell Linux
>>that it is your default route and off you go?
>>I'd be interested in using ASDL via Solaris at work but without any helpful
>>pointers from Demon, I have no intention of installing it.
>>
>>It's a shame the helpdesk take this approach, whatever happened to Neil
>>'freebsd' McRae (sp?)

> I've actually heard rumours that the bog-standard BT-supplied ADSL
> service, as recently announced, will supply a USB modem with drivers for
> 95/98 only... That can't be good, seeing as I don't have one of those,
> and don't particularly wish to use the other... :)

If you pop over to UK telecom you will find that several people
(Including at least one person who runs and ISP) are most
unimpressed with this.

Also BTW, it's Win98 and possibly W2k...

Ascender (ascender@SeeTheSig.com) wrote:
: >I mailed Demon helpdesk to ask about non-Windows /Mac OSes but they weren't
: >helpful. The FAQ mentions that BT will install a router/modem device which
: >surely should be configured like any other router, thus you could tell Linux
: >that it is your default route and off you go?
: >I'd be interested in using ASDL via Solaris at work but without any helpful
: >pointers from Demon, I have no intention of installing it.
: >
: >It's a shame the helpdesk take this approach, whatever happened to Neil
: >'freebsd' McRae (sp?)

: I've actually heard rumours that the bog-standard BT-supplied ADSL
: service, as recently announced, will supply a USB modem with drivers for
: 95/98 only... That can't be good, seeing as I don't have one of those,
: and don't particularly wish to use the other... :)

That's correct. According th BT's web page. 39.99 inc VAT for consumer
single computer connection, 39.99 plus vat for a business single user, both
with USB/WinXX. A multiuser business connection will cost 99.99 plus vat and
includes a router/10baseT port if I read it correctly.

Of course, all this will get you is a Microsoft Portal?

Geoff

-- 
    Geoff  Blake        geoff (at) palaemon . co . uk         linux 2.0.36
    Chelmsford           g8gnz @ g8gnz . ampr . org           sparc - i586
    Please, only use the  .ampr.org address if you know what you are doing
      Intel create faster processors - Microsoft create slower processes

James Murray wrote:
> 
> In article <956706153.20018.0.nnrp-12.9e9873a0@news.demon.co.uk> "lesstif" <lesstif@hotmail.com> writes:
> >anyone using ADSL trial with linux?
> >
> >pls post info, pointers, help etc
> 
> I mailed Demon helpdesk to ask about non-Windows /Mac OSes but they weren't
> helpful. The FAQ mentions that BT will install a router/modem device which
> surely should be configured like any other router, thus you could tell Linux
> that it is your default route and off you go?
> I'd be interested in using ASDL via Solaris at work but without any helpful
> pointers from Demon, I have no intention of installing it.
> 
> It's a shame the helpdesk take this approach, whatever happened to Neil
> 'freebsd' McRae (sp?)

When the trial was announced I mailed Malcolm Muir, who said that yes,
they welcomed "non standard" kit as they wanted as broad a user base as
possible. However, I didn't get on the trial - BT's decision I believe.
At that stage it was all ethernet which would have been fine, now I
understand the cheap "home" option is USB which could be tricky. It
might work with a 2.3 kernel but I'm not going to pay for a subscription
to test this.

Regards, Ian

In article <2000May1.212811.3198@jsm-net.demon.co.uk>, James Murray
<jsm@jsm-net.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <956706153.20018.0.nnrp-12.9e9873a0@news.demon.co.uk> "lesstif" 
><lesstif@hotmail.com> writes:
>>anyone using ADSL trial with linux?
>>
>>pls post info, pointers, help etc
>
>I mailed Demon helpdesk to ask about non-Windows /Mac OSes but they weren't
>helpful. The FAQ mentions that BT will install a router/modem device which
>surely should be configured like any other router, thus you could tell Linux
>that it is your default route and off you go?
>I'd be interested in using ASDL via Solaris at work but without any helpful
>pointers from Demon, I have no intention of installing it.

BT the wankers are trying to tie "Home" ADSL to Windoze by supplying a
USB product as a modem.

Seems those of us who don't follow billy's little regime will need to
either cruise car boot sales looking for nicked LAN ADSL routers, buy
one or buy business ADSL.

TB               Busby the Cat 1984 - 22.9.1999

In article <391084AF.7E774E27@house-from-hell.demon.co.uk>,
	Ian Northeast <ian@house-from-hell.demon.co.uk> writes:
> When the trial was announced I mailed Malcolm Muir, who said that yes,
> they welcomed "non standard" kit as they wanted as broad a user base as
> possible. However, I didn't get on the trial - BT's decision I believe.
> At that stage it was all ethernet which would have been fine, now I
> understand the cheap "home" option is USB which could be tricky. It
> might work with a 2.3 kernel but I'm not going to pay for a subscription
> to test this.

So the trial is only going to be carried out with certain kit that ought to
work. 

-- 
Peter Chant 
pete@neither.demon.co.uk

Tom Bird <hamster@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>BT the wankers are trying to tie "Home" ADSL to Windoze by supplying a
>USB product as a modem.
>
>Seems those of us who don't follow billy's little regime will need to
>either cruise car boot sales looking for nicked LAN ADSL routers, buy
>one or buy business ADSL.

Those of us with grown-up operationg systems probably want a real internet
connection rather than BT's mangled portal service (assuming from conversations
that the Demon trial offering is the same NAT offering as the the BT
Openworld launch).  Don't know if Demon's 'live' offering will involve a
real, two-way connection; if not, wait for local-loop unbundling when
*someone* will offer a simple IP pipe without any of this 'premium content'
nonsense BT want to push.

Regards,
Tim.

Tom Bird <hamster@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <2000May1.212811.3198@jsm-net.demon.co.uk>, James Murray
> <jsm@jsm-net.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In article <956706153.20018.0.nnrp-12.9e9873a0@news.demon.co.uk> "lesstif" 
>><lesstif@hotmail.com> writes:
>>>anyone using ADSL trial with linux?
>>>
>>>pls post info, pointers, help etc
>>
>>I mailed Demon helpdesk to ask about non-Windows /Mac OSes but they weren't
>>helpful. The FAQ mentions that BT will install a router/modem device which
>>surely should be configured like any other router, thus you could tell Linux
>>that it is your default route and off you go?
>>I'd be interested in using ASDL via Solaris at work but without any helpful
>>pointers from Demon, I have no intention of installing it.

> BT the wankers are trying to tie "Home" ADSL to Windoze by supplying a
> USB product as a modem.

They are trying to do much the same with their "small business"
service.

Mark Evans (mpe@anacon.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: Tom Bird <hamster@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: > In article <2000May1.212811.3198@jsm-net.demon.co.uk>, James Murray
: > <jsm@jsm-net.demon.co.uk> writes
: >>In article <956706153.20018.0.nnrp-12.9e9873a0@news.demon.co.uk> "lesstif" 
: >><lesstif@hotmail.com> writes:
: >>>anyone using ADSL trial with linux?
: >>>
: >>>pls post info, pointers, help etc
: >>
: >>I mailed Demon helpdesk to ask about non-Windows /Mac OSes but they weren't
: >>helpful. The FAQ mentions that BT will install a router/modem device which
: >>surely should be configured like any other router, thus you could tell Linux
: >>that it is your default route and off you go?
: >>I'd be interested in using ASDL via Solaris at work but without any helpful
: >>pointers from Demon, I have no intention of installing it.

: > BT the wankers are trying to tie "Home" ADSL to Windoze by supplying a
: > USB product as a modem.

: They are trying to do much the same with their "small business"
: service.

Is it not true that the other end it tied to a Microsoft Portal and that
Microsoft are funding part of the capital cost?

Geoff
-- 
    Geoff  Blake        geoff (at) palaemon . co . uk         linux 2.0.36
    Chelmsford           g8gnz @ g8gnz . ampr . org           sparc - i586
    Please, only use the  .ampr.org address if you know what you are doing
      Intel create faster processors - Microsoft create slower processes

ADSL trial finally turned up on Tuesday. I have reconfigured my small
network of Linux and some Win95 machines to work fine

Instructions are useless but essentially the router is happy if you
create a netwrok on 192.168.254.x. It does DHCP for you (but that does
not seem to be configurable). I had to reconfigure all my machines
because I was previously using the address range of 192.168.1.x

I will try to get the Helpdesk to tell me whether the DHCP and DNS in
the router can be configured.

For a single machine you should be fine with an ethernet ard and a
crossover cable.

lesstif wrote:

> anyone using ADSL trial with linux?
>
> pls post info, pointers, help etc
>
> Andi

Paul Evans <paul@paulwork.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:391CF900.14D4D9F@paulwork.demon.co.uk...

> ADSL trial finally turned up on Tuesday. I have reconfigured my small
> network of Linux and some Win95 machines to work fine
>
> Instructions are useless but essentially the router is happy if you
> create a netwrok on 192.168.254.x. It does DHCP for you (but that does
> not seem to be configurable). I had to reconfigure all my machines
> because I was previously using the address range of 192.168.1.x
>
> I will try to get the Helpdesk to tell me whether the DHCP and DNS in
> the router can be configured.
>
> For a single machine you should be fine with an ethernet ard and a
> crossover cable.

So the Demon trial is not using the same as BTopenworld? (They're
offering a USB adsl modem)

I've been looking at it (BT offering) today, it's a usb adsl modem but
seems to be otherwise a standard tcp/ip setup.

So...

Although they say it's single user, any reason why (assuming you can
overcome the usb/driver hurdle) you can't just do as per a standard
modem with a linux masqueraded lan setup?

To over come the usb/driver hurdle, maybe you could buy an adsl modem
with an ethernet interface and put the usb one in the spares cupboard?
(Can you buy them? Perhaps from USA? How much?)

I'm not really wanting to rush to ADSL, but I'm getting a second line
and wondering whether to get a simple standard line or to invest in the
ageing technology of isdn/home highway, or (probably) get an ordinary
line now and expect that useable adsl will be along either "real soon
now" or not long after that.

Or maybe see what adsl offerings Demon come up with after their trials
are complete, see whether they're any better than BT e.g. better
equipment (ethernet instead of usb) at comparable price.

--
Simon Child

Simon Child <simon.child@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Paul Evans <paul@paulwork.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:391CF900.14D4D9F@paulwork.demon.co.uk...

>> ADSL trial finally turned up on Tuesday. I have reconfigured my small
>> network of Linux and some Win95 machines to work fine
>>
>> Instructions are useless but essentially the router is happy if you
>> create a netwrok on 192.168.254.x. It does DHCP for you (but that does
>> not seem to be configurable). I had to reconfigure all my machines
>> because I was previously using the address range of 192.168.1.x
>>
>> I will try to get the Helpdesk to tell me whether the DHCP and DNS in
>> the router can be configured.
>>
>> For a single machine you should be fine with an ethernet ard and a
>> crossover cable.

> So the Demon trial is not using the same as BTopenworld? (They're
> offering a USB adsl modem)

All the trials are being done using an ethernet connected setup.

AFAIK the USB system has not been trialed at all.

> I've been looking at it (BT offering) today, it's a usb adsl modem but
> seems to be otherwise a standard tcp/ip setup.

Not sure where you get that idea from the BT website is rather
devoid of information on the ISP side. (Whereas there is a reasonable
amoount of information on the actual line.)

> So...

> Although they say it's single user, any reason why (assuming you can
> overcome the usb/driver hurdle) you can't just do as per a standard
> modem with a linux masqueraded lan setup?

The problem is that no-one knows how high the "hurdle" is set.
Since the USB setup has never been trialed no-one knows how easy
this would be.

Of course there is a very obvious way in which BT could be
helpful here. (Assuming they have installed the relevent 
equiptment in Swansea.)

There is also the issue of the BT installer getting in a sulk if
they don't have a Win98 machine to mess arround with :)

> To over come the usb/driver hurdle, maybe you could buy an adsl modem
> with an ethernet interface and put the usb one in the spares cupboard?

Effectivly you'd be messing with BT's side of the network, which
they get upset about.

> (Can you buy them? Perhaps from USA? How much?)

Do not even think about importing anything telecoms related across
the atlantic. They do things differently from the rest of the world
over there :) i.e. it's unlikely to work anyway.

Andrew Brookes wrote:
> I had a long talk with the BT installer who suggested that when BT go
> live they will be using the same kit as now, except there will be a
> '10baseT to UTP' converter between router and customers computer. We may
> have to wait and see though.

Oops... what i meant to type was "10baseT to USB converter".

-- 
Andrew Brookes 
Chief Technician Computing (Coventry School of Art and Design
Email - andy@phmab.demon.co.uk    
or should that be andy@phmab.demonadsltrial.co.uk
Web - www.phmab.demon.co.uk/andy

Seems to work fine with Linux RedHat and FreeBSD 4.


> > So the Demon trial is not using the same as BTopenworld? (They're
> > offering a USB adsl modem)
> 

I had a long talk with the BT installer who suggested that when BT go
live they will be using the same kit as now, except there will be a
'10baseT to UTP' converter between router and customers computer. We may
have to wait and see though.
   
Andy
---
Andrew Brookes 
Chief Technician Computing (Coventry School of Art and Design
Email - andy@phmab.demon.co.uk    
or should that be andy@phmab.demonadsltrial.co.uk
Web - www.phmab.demon.co.uk/andy

Andrew Brookes <andy@phmab.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:393825FD.7929C338@phmab.demon.co.uk...

> > I had a long talk with the BT installer who suggested that when BT
go
> > live they will be using the same kit as now, except there will be a
> > '10baseT to UTP' converter between router and customers computer. We
may
> > have to wait and see though.
>
> Oops... what i meant to type was "10baseT to USB converter".

I guessed that :-)

Anyway, sounds like a promising idea, but...

there are usb adsl modems so they could do without the converter (which
you or I would remove) and simply supply you with an adsl modem
   e.g. see:

http://www.alcatel.com/consumer/dsl/produsb.htm

http://www.ftel.co.uk/products/index.html?dsl_cpe.html

How about a usb to 10baseT converter???

--
Simon Child

Andrew Brookes <andy@phmab.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Seems to work fine with Linux RedHat and FreeBSD 4.


>> > So the Demon trial is not using the same as BTopenworld? (They're
>> > offering a USB adsl modem)
>> 

> I had a long talk with the BT installer who suggested that when BT go
> live they will be using the same kit as now, except there will be a
> '10baseT to UTP' converter between router and customers computer. We may

What on earth is this? They are the same thing, is this a strange
way to describe a crossover lead?

> have to wait and see though.

mpe@anacon.demon.co.uk (Mark Evans) wrote in 
<u59gi8.l17.ln@anacon.demon.co.uk>:

>Andrew Brookes <andy@phmab.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Seems to work fine with Linux RedHat and FreeBSD 4.
>
>
>>> > So the Demon trial is not using the same as BTopenworld? (They're
>>> > offering a USB adsl modem)
>>> 
>
>> I had a long talk with the BT installer who suggested that when BT go
>> live they will be using the same kit as now, except there will be a
>> '10baseT to UTP' converter between router and customers computer. We may
>
>What on earth is this? They are the same thing, is this a strange
>way to describe a crossover lead?
>
>> have to wait and see though.

The thing that annoys me is that the home version is only available in USB, 
so what happens if you are for example running NT, or some other OS that 
does not support USB. How about having a version that supplies a single 
ethernet connection, and 1 IP address, that way anyone with an ethernet 
capable machine could use the service, but you would still be limited to 
one *DIRECTLY* connected machine.

Phill.
 

>The thing that annoys me is that the home version is only available in USB, 
>so what happens if you are for example running NT, or some other OS that 
>does not support USB. How about having a version that supplies a single 
>ethernet connection, and 1 IP address, that way anyone with an ethernet 
>capable machine could use the service, but you would still be limited to 
>one *DIRECTLY* connected machine.
Indeedy - BT are being the nasty buggers that we know them for. Yes,
only one *directly* connected machine, but limitless others, through a
variety of methods (think Socks, think proxies, think port forwarders,
think internet connection sharing...)

Anway, it'll be a bit nicer when (if) linux or some other real network
OS supports USB and the relevant gubbins to make ADSL work :)

Seems as though Demon's recent offering only gives you a real ethernet
port if you pay them 95 quid a month or more.
Plus, /all/ their offerings claim that they require Windows 98 or 2000
:(


-- 
   * Ascender *  (Phil Stoneman)
 ascender [at] tjsathome.demon.co.uk
   telnet://dominion.net.uk:2468

Mark Evans wrote:
> > '10baseT to UTP' converter between router and customers computer. We may
> 
> What on earth is this? They are the same thing, is this a strange
> way to describe a crossover lead?

If you'd read my next posting you would have noticed I corrected UTP to
USB, I had finger trouble and UTP on my mind after writing a report on
NEtwork stratagies for work all that day.

The ADSL router installed here is a single UTP connection from the DTE
and then either a crossover cable from the router to 10bT hub/PC.


-- 
Andrew Brookes - Chief Technician (Computing)
andy@phmab.demon.co.uk
phmab runs on FreeBSD.