🚀 go-pugleaf

On Nov 9, 4:49 pm, "slydrule" <stopspam> wrote:
> "bushlyed" <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ebfa46a6-5d7b-4e3e-ba44-30e35b3334fb@o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 9, 1:49 am, Dana <LimoD...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 8, 4:50 pm, bushlyed <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > I have seen the factcheck.org's copy of the certificate and it has a
> > > raised seal.
>
> > Factcheck.org is sposored by the Annenberg group, which Obama
> > represented in the 90s.
>
> > I'd say their conflict of interest is quite clear.
>
> >The only thing quite clear is that you are an idiot
>
> kettle....black?
>
> >Are you saying that factcheck.org forged the birth certificate or that
> >the Anneberg group headed by solid Republicans is in the tank for
> >Obama
>
> Again, the certificate on factcheck.org is a duplicate that was issued in
> 2007.  This is the only copy of the birth certificate we've seen.  It
> appears to be authentic but its not the same as the original document that
> would prove he was born in the hospital in Hawaii.   Personally, I think
> this is just another conspiracy theory like Loose Change, but the copy of
> the birth certificate is not going to stop the theorists.
>
> It would only take one person at the Bureau of Vital Records in Hawaii to
> fix it so a record of birth exists.  Only the original birth certificate
> would  end that speculation.
>
> And for those that think this isn't possible, just look at what happened in
> Ohio with Joe the Plumber.  State employees there had no problem going into
> their systems and digging dirt.
>
> >What the hell are you saying or implying
>
> I think that's obvious.

Factcheck.org has an actual picture of the birth certificate.  They
also have a copy of the birth notice in the Honolulu paper.

Taken directly from their site:

Born in the U.S.A.
August 21, 2008
Updated: November 1, 2008
The truth about Obama's birth certificate.
Summary
In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his
birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a
natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based
skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author
Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that
the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched,
examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude
that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for
proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal
or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs
of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our
conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health
confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.

Analysis
Update Nov. 1: The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying
that both she and the  registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka,
have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's
original birth certificate.

Fukino also was quoted by several other news organizations. The
Honolulu Advertiser quoted Fukino as saying the agency had been
bombarded by requests, and that the registrar of statistics had even
been called in at home in the middle of the night.

Honolulu Advertiser, Nov. 1 2008: "This has gotten ridiculous," state
health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. "There are plenty
of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes,
energy." . . . Will this be enough to quiet the doubters? "I hope so,"
Fukino said. "We need to get some work done."

Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii
State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate
on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

Since we first wrote about Obama's birth certificate on June 16,
speculation on his citizenship has continued apace. Some claim that
Obama posted a fake birth certificate to his Web page. That charge
leaped from the blogosphere to the mainstream media earlier this week
when Jerome Corsi, author of a book attacking Obama, repeated the
claim in an Aug. 15 interview with Steve Doocy on Fox News.

Corsi: Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would
release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has
a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is
anybody supposed to really piece together his life?

Doocy: What do you mean they have a "false birth certificate" on their
Web site?

Corsi: The original birth certificate of Obama has never been
released, and the campaign refuses to release it.

Doocy: Well, couldn't it just be a State of Hawaii-produced duplicate?

Corsi: No, it's a -- there's been good analysis of it on the Internet,
and it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake
document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth
certificate the campaign refuses to produce.


Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery.
Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails
are:

The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.
It isn't signed.
No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.

In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.
The certificate number is blacked out.
The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the
document wasn't released until 2008.
The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of
birth."

Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time
with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is
real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in
Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised
seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar
Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing
individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few
photographs.



The Obama birth certificate, held by FactCheck writer Joe Miller




Alvin T. Onaka's signature stamp





The raised seal





Blowup of text


You can click on the photos to get full-size versions, which haven't
been edited in any way, except that some have been rotated 90 degrees
for viewing purposes.

The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for
proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the
full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the
birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the
official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of
birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you
can see the seal above.

The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form
birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and
includes additional information such as birth weight and parents'
hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a
database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth
record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of
your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough
information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask
the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other
questions, but they have not given a response.

The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text,
making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on
top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such
halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the
halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact
from the scanning process.

We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out
certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because
that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which
requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands
on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release
its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet
questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release
the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out
certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the
phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret
information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then
we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The
document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 -
010641.



Blowup of certificate number
Some of the conspiracy theories that have circulated about Obama are
quite imaginative. One conservative blogger suggested that the
campaign might have obtained a valid Hawaii birth certificate, soaked
it in solvent, then reprinted it with Obama's information. Of course,
this anonymous blogger didn't have access to the actual document and
presents this as just one possible "scenario" without any evidence
that such a thing actually happened or is even feasible.


We also note that so far none of those questioning the authenticity of
the document have produced a shred of evidence that the information on
it is incorrect. Instead, some speculate that somehow, maybe, he was
born in another country and doesn't meet the Constitution's
requirement that the president be a "natural-born citizen."


We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of
these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama
conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job,
involving a vast network of people and government agencies over
decades of lies. Anything’s possible. But step back and look at the
overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s
reasonable has to take over."

In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our
colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt
on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in
the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:


Obama's birth announcement



The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who
grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in
Honolulu.


Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have
planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove
his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest
that those who choose to go down that path should first equip
themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear:
Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.

Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from
the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about
their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised
question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"? Kurt Tsue
at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied
by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify
themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack
Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African."
It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.

When we asked about the security borders, which look different from
some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said
"The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A
citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate
indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the
information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove
citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."

–by Jess Henig, with Joe Miller
Sources
United States Department of State. "Application for a U.S. Passport."
Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

State of Hawaii Department of Health. "Request for Certified Copy of
Birth Record." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

Hollyfield, Amy. "Obama's Birth Certificate: Final Chapter."
Politifact.com. 27 Jun. 2008.

The Associated Press. "State declares Obama birth certificate genuine"
31 Oct 2008.

Nakaso, Dan. "Obama's certificate of birth OK, state says; Health
director issues voucher in response to 'ridiculous' barrage" Honolulu
Advertiser 1 Nov 2008.

========

Now what I would suggest you do is go to the site where I copied this
from (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html),
print out the pictures of the birth certificate, print out the birth
notice, examine them carefully then shove it up your ignorant right
wing ass.