🚀 go-pugleaf

First, cs.general, a group for computer science department announcements,
may not be a good forum for announcements like this. Perhaps something for
the whole of UWA? aus.music is also an innapropriate forum, as goes out
to all of Australia, not just UWA. 

Now an actual reply (please reply to me via email, or on some more appropriate
forum). Your club sounds like two clubs rolled innto one, an alternative music
club and a political club. The alternative music club sounds like a good idea,
however be aware that it also sounds like a lot of work (more than you might
thinnk), and that such clubs (there have been a few before) inevitably fold
when the founders stop working. Perhaps a club with some affiliations with
6RTR?
	A politics club is not a good thing to combine with a music club. The
connection between the two may make sense to you, but not to a lot of others.
Particularly as from your remarks against 'left-wing' clubs I assume that your
politics are fairly right wing (I cann think of several alternative bands that
are left wing activists, but a lot less who are right wing) but even if you 
were left-wing it would still be a mistake. Making yourself overtly political
will alienate a lot of potential punters. 
					Catch you round
							Dave Cake
P.S. I would be interested in talking to you some more about this, but use
a more appropriate forum.

-- 
David Cake		|life is easily understood as bit strings with logical
[WLM] Weird Little Man	|depth greater than their length - Rebis, Doom Patrol
Cognitive science, UWA	|..think about a government entirely of fish - JBC				

davidc@bilby.cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake) writes:
>	A politics club is not a good thing to combine with a music club. The
>connection between the two may make sense to you, but not to a lot of others.
>Particularly as from your remarks against 'left-wing' clubs I assume that your
>politics are fairly right wing (I cann think of several alternative bands that
>are left wing activists, but a lot less who are right wing) but even if you 
>were left-wing it would still be a mistake. Making yourself overtly political
>will alienate a lot of potential punters. 

I couldn't find any remarks against left-wingers in the original post.
He mentioned "Labor, Liberal and Left Alliance".  But I should he should
come clean on his politics, anyway.


--
	Daniel Lam
	Melbourne, Australia

In my opinion, the opinions expressed here are my personal opinions.

davidc@bilby.cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake) writes:

>First, cs.general, a group for computer science department announcements,
>may not be a good forum for announcements like this. Perhaps something for
>the whole of UWA? aus.music is also an innapropriate forum, as goes out
>to all of Australia, not just UWA. 

I'm not in UWA anyway.

>Now an actual reply (please reply to me via email, or on some more appropriate
>forum). Your club sounds like two clubs rolled innto one, an alternative music
>club and a political club. The alternative music club sounds like a good idea,
>however be aware that it also sounds like a lot of work (more than you might
>thinnk), and that such clubs (there have been a few before) inevitably fold
>when the founders stop working. Perhaps a club with some affiliations with
>6RTR?
>	A politics club is not a good thing to combine with a music club. The

It's not about 2 clubs rolledd into one.  It's about being alternative, have
lots of fun, and get serious sometimes too.

>connection between the two may make sense to you, but not to a lot of others.
>Particularly as from your remarks against 'left-wing' clubs I assume that your
>politics are fairly right wing (I cann think of several alternative bands that

Nope, both left-wing and right-wing are mainstream.  We are not a whatever-wing,we're the alternative club and we'll be thinking *independently*, ie, not
affected by mainstream propaganda as I've said.

>are left wing activists, but a lot less who are right wing) but even if you 
>were left-wing it would still be a mistake. Making yourself overtly political
>will alienate a lot of potential punters. 

We're not overly political.  We're a FUN CLUB, that's what I said in the
original article, and we don't really care about whatever-wing we are coz
we're not.

>					Catch you round
>							Dave Cake
>P.S. I would be interested in talking to you some more about this, but use
>a more appropriate forum.

If you want to talk about stuff with me, email me at acc@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au 

Andy Chang


>-- 
>David Cake		|life is easily understood as bit strings with logical
>[WLM] Weird Little Man	|depth greater than their length - Rebis, Doom Patrol
>Cognitive science, UWA	|..think about a government entirely of fish - JBC				

In article <acc.719023944@munagin>, acc@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (andy chia an chang) writes:
> Hi fellow net-ers out there,
> 
> Me and a few friends are starting a club on campus that's going to be called,
> at this stage, The Alternative Music and Politics Club.  Here is a brief
> guide to the aims of the club and what it will hopefully be able to offer to
> club members :   
> 
> 
> (2) The music side of the club is very important.  We intend to organize bands,
> good alternative bands(could be metal, or rock, but must be alternative) to
> play on campus throughout the year.  We'll also organize fun parties and stuff.
> Nightclubs, bars, beaches, concerts and drinking parties will all be the main
> features of the club.
> 
> (4) If what's been said hasn't appealed to you, well then think about this.  We
> will be having wild parties with lots of drinks, music, people of the *right*
> type for others to socialize with.

Good luck with your club, but I'm a bit disappointed that the social
activities, ie wild parties with booze, beach, night clubs etc are awfully
mainstream kinds of fun. :-)

-- 

Be seeing you!

Patrick.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Jordan                      |          _
CSIRO Division of Radiophysics      |        // \   I am not a number,
NSW, Australia                      |       /( 6 )  I am a free man.
pjordan@rp.csiro.au                 |      () \_/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

acc@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (andy chia an chang) writes:
>Nightclubs, bars, beaches, concerts and drinking parties will all be the main

aaaaarrrrrggggghhhhhh

>(4) If what's been said hasn't appealed to you, well then think about this.  We
>will be having wild parties with lots of drinks, music, people of the *right*
>type for others to socialize with.  We will also have camps, and a political

sorry, just what is this "*right* type"?

and do all people of this type (like yourself of course) sound like total 
fuckwits?

i apologize, but this really has to be the *dumbest* idea anyone has ever
thought of since R Harris invented Fortran 77 ( joke 8^) )

check-ya,
chris.

I=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=I
I Chris Milton.                   email address : crmilton@mundil.cs.mu.oz.au I
I=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=I
I  "I am so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month.   I
I            I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis."            I
I                                                         - Zaphod Beeblebrox I 
I=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=I

crmilton@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Christopher Robert MILTON) writes:

>acc@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (andy chia an chang) writes:
>>Nightclubs, bars, beaches, concerts and drinking parties will all be the main

>aaaaarrrrrggggghhhhhh
Ditto.

>>(4) If what's been said hasn't appealed to you, well then think about this.  We
>>will be having wild parties with lots of drinks, music, people of the *right*
>>type for others to socialize with.  We will also have camps, and a political

>sorry, just what is this "*right* type"?

>and do all people of this type (like yourself of course) sound like total 
>fuckwits?

>i apologize, but this really has to be the *dumbest* idea anyone has ever
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Why? :-)
>thought of since R Harris invented Fortran 77 ( joke 8^) )

I probably couldn't agree with Chris more. Who are you, Andy, to say 
who are the *right* type of people? How will you prevent subversive normal
people from entering your club? A politically correct entrance examination?
Appropriate tastes in music? How do you define 'Alternative Music and Politics',
aside from your personal tastes in noise and hot air?

As for: >>Nightclubs, bars, beaches, concerts and drinking parties
aren't there enough clubs providing such activities without yet another scoring
chunks of our Student Union fees? 
I hope you enjoy the above immensely, because that's a sure way to fail 
any degree, let alone engineering or comp sci. Wot are you, a first year?

Enjoy your club, you will probably be very lonely...

No Regards,
	Mike.
-- 
Michael Cutter                        email: mtc@mundil.cs.mu.oz.au
Ictinus Network Development Team             mtc@vitruvius.arbld.unimelb.edu.au
BCAT Development Team                 snail: 3 Barton Street
Department of Architecture & Building        Hawthorn, VIC, 3122 
University of Melbourne, Australia           AUSTRALIA
Sort of 3rd Year Computer Scientist   phail: 61-3-853 9717

acc@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (andy chia an chang) writes:

>Me and a few friends are starting a club on campus that's going to be called,
>at this stage, The Alternative Music and Politics Club.  Here is a brief
>guide to the aims of the club and what it will hopefully be able to offer to
>club members :   

>(1) Being alternative is about being away from mainstream, let it be mainstream
>commercial top-40 music or mainstream politics generated by the propaganda of
>mainstream political parties.  We, as university students, are true adults and

Weren't you in the Young Ones?

--- G M Heinrich  ( leroy@socs.uts.edu.au )
House meeting! Under the stairs! Three minutes!

crmilton@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Christopher Robert MILTON) writes:

>acc@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (andy chia an chang) writes:
>>Nightclubs, bars, beaches, concerts and drinking parties will all be the main

>aaaaarrrrrggggghhhhhh

>>(4) If what's been said hasn't appealed to you, well then think about this.  We
>>will be having wild parties with lots of drinks, music, people of the *right*
>>type for others to socialize with.  We will also have camps, and a political

>sorry, just what is this "*right* type"?

>and do all people of this type (like yourself of course) sound like total 
>fuckwits?

>i apologize, but this really has to be the *dumbest* idea anyone has ever
>thought of since R Harris invented Fortran 77 ( joke 8^) )

Hmmmmm, didn't expect people to flame such a *simple* *innocent* post ...

As I said, the whole idea about the club is to have *fun*, and also get serious
sometimes.  I guess that's a quite simple and straight forward thing isn't it?
We're *not* out to offend anyone, but if we happened to offend some people,     well, hehehe, I apologize.

>check-ya,
>chris.


>I=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=I
>I Chris Milton.                   email address : crmilton@mundil.cs.mu.oz.au I
>I=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=I
>I  "I am so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month.   I
>I            I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis."            I
>I                                                         - Zaphod Beeblebrox I 
>I=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=I

mtc@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Michael Trevor CUTTER) writes:

>I probably couldn't agree with Chris more. Who are you, Andy, to say 
>who are the *right* type of people? How will you prevent subversive normal
>people from entering your club? A politically correct entrance examination?
>Appropriate tastes in music? How do you define 'Alternative Music and Politics',

We welcome anyone to join, and if some happened not to like it they could alwayspull out :)

>aside from your personal tastes in noise and hot air?

>As for: >>Nightclubs, bars, beaches, concerts and drinking parties
>aren't there enough clubs providing such activities without yet another scoring
>chunks of our Student Union fees? 

I paid $15 entering 3 clubs earlier in the year and never got any news from    
them.  I guess they probably choked up our money.  Anyway, it costs nothing to
join right now as we're very new, so people are welcome to contact me at
acc@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au :)

>I hope you enjoy the above immensely, because that's a sure way to fail 
>any degree, let alone engineering or comp sci. Wot are you, a first year?

>Enjoy your club, you will probably be very lonely...

Sheesh, no need to get upset over a *simple* newsgroup article.  I find that
quite amusing ... :)

>No Regards,
>	Mike.
>-- 

Andy

>Michael Cutter                        email: mtc@mundil.cs.mu.oz.au
>Ictinus Network Development Team             mtc@vitruvius.arbld.unimelb.edu.au
>BCAT Development Team                 snail: 3 Barton Street
>Department of Architecture & Building        Hawthorn, VIC, 3122 
>University of Melbourne, Australia           AUSTRALIA
>Sort of 3rd Year Computer Scientist   phail: 61-3-853 9717

acc@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (andy chia an chang) writes:


 Here is a brief
>guide to the aims of the club and what it will hopefully be able to offer to
>club members :   

>(1) Being alternative is about being away from mainstream, let it be mainstream
>commercial top-40 music or mainstream politics generated by the propaganda of
>mainstream political parties.  We, as university students, are true adults and
>we should no longer be effected by what's hot, what's right or what's wrong as
>others tell us.
  We should develop an independent frame of mind, and that's whatthis club is for, indepedent fun-loving people who are *fed-up* with pop music
>and dirty politics generated by the Labor, Liberal and Left-Alliance Clubs on
>campus :)

	do you need to join a club to do these things ?

>(2) The music side of the club is very important.  We intend to organize bands,
>good alternative bands(could be metal, or rock, but must be alternative)
 to play on campus throughout the year.

	Will you support african drumming bands,  atonal music,
	etc, or will you prefer to go on drinking binges, and
	lose consciousness whilst listing to what is often refered to as
	'grunge music'.

	Alternative music is perhaps music the majority
of people do not wish to hear.  The main problem I have with
what many people term 'alternative music' is that it seems to be
more appropriately described as 'an alternative to music'.  

[Original post deleted.]

Organised anti-conformity.

It smacks of a bunch of odd-balls hanging around saying
`..arn't we hip, gee its good to be alternative. '

I guess a party in plastic bag isn't such a bad idea.

Simon - Founder member of the alternative stamp collectors collective.
	Philatelistic oriented orgy league - phool

acc@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (andy chia an chang) writes:

>mtc@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Michael Trevor CUTTER) writes:

>>I probably couldn't agree with Chris more. Who are you, Andy, to say 
>>who are the *right* type of people? How will you prevent subversive normal
>>people from entering your club? A politically correct entrance examination?
>>Appropriate tastes in music? How do you define 'Alternative Music and Politics',

>We welcome anyone to join, and if some happened not to like it they could alwayspull out :)
Its an interesting idea, proposing a club to do all those things that everybody
already does...or so it appears. Precisely what benefits are there in a 
'politically correct' club, that doesn't care who it lets in? :-) 

It also seems a peculiar attitude to provide such mainstream entertainment
in a club which wants to be 'Alternative.' How about jogging underwater, instead
of getting blind drunk and falling over a lot on hard surfaces. Concerts I can
handle. Will you arrange concerts of Guatemalan bongoes? That would be truly
alternative...and probably equally devoid of any except the diehard Guatemalan
bongo addicts. Face it, no club can hope to be truly alternative and simultan-
eously appeal to more than 0.002% of the population.

From your proposals of alternative entertainment, you leave us inclined to 
wonder whether you have an imagination of sufficient scope to keep 
those truly interested in the 'alternative' as members of your club for more
than a week. 

I could be wrong. Surprise me. :-)

Encourage entertainment that doesn't involve personal injury or brain damage,
now that would be mildly alternative.
>>aside from your personal tastes in noise and hot air?

>>As for: >>Nightclubs, bars, beaches, concerts and drinking parties
>>aren't there enough clubs providing such activities without yet another scoring
>>chunks of our Student Union fees? 

>I paid $15 entering 3 clubs earlier in the year and never got any news from    
>them.  I guess they probably choked up our money.
My heart bleedeth for your $15. Which clubs did you join? 
The "We Promise, We'll Have A Massive Piss-On First Thing In The Year, Honest!
(We Just Won't Invite Anyone Who Paid For It) Club"?
Learn value for money. Spend your money on booze, entries to nightclubs, beer to
take to the beach, beer to take anywhere.
Much cheaper than joining a club...you lose far more brain cells for your cash.
:-)

> Anyway, it costs nothing to
>join right now as we're very new, so people are welcome to contact me at
>acc@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au :)
Groovy.

>>I hope you enjoy the above immensely, because that's a sure way to fail 
>>any degree, let alone engineering or comp sci. Wot are you, a first year?

>>Enjoy your club, you will probably be very lonely...

>Sheesh, no need to get upset over a *simple* newsgroup article.  I find that
>quite amusing ... :)
I find it even more amusing that you took me so seriously... :-)
(By the way, don't you have a nose?)
Incidentally, your article was several pages long. You also appear to have an
alternative definition of *simple*. Enjoy.

Regards,
	Mike.
P.S. Try reading an article like that at 3am sometime. When you get to 2nd year. :-)
P.P.S. Oh, I get it. :) is an alternative smiley, right? *8o)

-- 
Michael Cutter                        email: mtc@mundil.cs.mu.oz.au
Ictinus Network Development Team             mtc@arbld.unimelb.edu.au
BCAT Development Team                 snail: c/- 3 Barton Street
Department of Architecture & Building        Hawthorn, VIC, 3122 
University of Melbourne, Australia           AUSTRALIA
Sort of 3rd Year Computer Scientist   phail: 61-3-853 9717

I guess this serves as a warning..  dont post flammable material
around exam time.

sjr@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Simon Rodger) writes:
>[Original post deleted.]
>
>Organised anti-conformity.
>
>It smacks of a bunch of odd-balls hanging around saying
>`..arn't we hip, gee its good to be alternative. '
>
>I guess a party in plastic bag isn't such a bad idea.
>
>Simon - Founder member of the alternative stamp collectors collective.
>	Philatelistic oriented orgy league - phool
>

For those that actually bother:

Most of these groups are familiar cf FOUL, etc.

Life of Brian quote leaps to mind:
	Brian:			"You're all individuals"
	Crowd(in unison):	"YES, WE'RE ALL INDIVIDUALS"
	Lone Man in Crowd:	"I'm not"

Think of it as Evolution in Action.



    THINK OF IT AS EVOLUTION IN ACTION !   |  davidjh@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au
                                           |  davidjh@mundil.cs.mu.oz.au 
Y'know if people weren't here it'd be easy |  davidjh@home.beaumaris.peace