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From: kpayne@ford-trucks.com (kpayne@ford-trucks.com)
Newsgroups: git.ads,ga.forsale
Subject: Re: FS: FORD ESCORT $400
Message-ID: <36bc2d3c.89984048@news.atl.bellsouth.net>
References: <78eemg$j43@catapult.gatech.edu> <36af4524.97033104@news.atl.bellsouth.net> <78kvck$flk@catapult.gatech.edu> <36b47f13.177412675@news.atl.bellsouth.net> <78m722$74l@crl3.crl.com> <36b5e27f.5302400@news.atl.bellsouth.net> <78qpjn$9if@catapult.gatech.edu>
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:56:19 GMT
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:56:19 EST
Xref: mindspring git.ads:26840 ga.forsale:63342

As you say, I'm just getting started:

1999 Toyota Camry Solara

"Handling is also Camry-like, with excessive wallow and sidewall roll when
trying to negotiate tight corners."


From your precious side by side comparisons:

1998 Audi A4 vs. 1998 Ford SVT Contour vs. 1999 Infiniti G20

Audi
"CONS: A4 was the weakest performer when pushed to the limits."


Ford:
"PROS: Outstanding canyon runner. The hands-down best performer on our 
demanding drives."
"CONS: Not as comfortable as other competitors. Interior lacks refinement."

Infiniti
"CONS: It takes more than a finely tuned suspension and pretty face to win 
us over. This car lacks guts."



Escort verses the Civic:

"Let�s talk about power. I happened to drive the Honda before the Ford and was
duly impressed with its pick up and go � until the next morning when the Escort
blew me down the road like a kite in high winds�an experience I�m familiar with
having lived in downtown Chicago. Both powertrains are acceptable for the size
of the cars, but if you want a little more pizzazz in your commute, the Ford
will deliver."

Toyota Camry:
"Our testers were incredulous that a $26,000 sedan would come with manual seat
adjusters, a heavy hood held up by a prop rod, no remote keyless entry,
and seats about as comfortable as plastic patio chairs. There was no
leather-wrapped steering wheel either, as one driver pointed out: "I can feel
the molded seam on the back of the steering wheel rim � Yuck!""

"But to equip the Toyota to approximately the same level as our Buick Regal GS
test car, you�re going to spend plenty more green on the Camry XLE model."

Honda Accord:
"Body roll is excessive and the tires fold over at the first available
opportunity when running the Accord along a curvy road"

"Unfortunately (and surprisingly) our Accord exhibited poor exterior build
quality. The paint shimmered, but the trunk lid was misaligned, the right rear
door was crooked, and the rear bumper fascia had a broken clip on the upper
right edge. The exterior also turned up more negative commentary, primarily
regarding the  anonymous styling and complete lack of personality."

Civic HX vs Escort ZX2
"And, during our emergency maneuver test, the Honda slewed all over the road,
tail threatening to swap places with the  front end. The Escort ZX2 handled
better in both instances, particularly during the latter test. At high speeds,
the Honda�s light steering provided the driver with little connection to the
road, while the heavier-effort ZX2 steering at least didn�t frighten the driver
while approaching triple-digit speeds."

Sports cars: Corvette won 1st place, even against Porsche
"But put the numbers side by side, and the Corvette competes with some of the
best cars money can buy. It's a blink of an eye slower to 60 than the NSX. It
holds the road better than a 911, though not as well as the NSX or Viper. Its
LS1 V8 engine generates more torque than the NSX, but not what you'll find in
the Viper. Stopping distances, however, turned out to be the best of the bunch,
an unexpected plus on the Corvette's side. "

In the SUV comparision:
"Of the three SUVs we tested, we�d buy the value-laden Mountaineer, even without
a coupon."

Eclipse GS-T Spyder and the Mustang GT
"Both are fast. Indeed, the Mustang�s horsepower rating bests the Eclipse�s by
only 5 ponies. Torque is another story. The Mustang�s big, American, V-8 engine
produces an obscene 285  pound-feet of twist action, while the turbocharged
4-banger in the Eclipse makes an impressive, but not earth-shattering, 214
pound-feet of torque."

"Those with a fear of engine compartments stuffed to the brim with technology
will have an easy choice to make here: the innards of the Mitsubishi�s engine
compartment look like a bowl of pasta. "

"It�s one of those pieces of road that requires a conscious effort at
respiration; so intoxicating and challenging that it is easy to forget
to breathe. It was on this section of asphalt that the Mustang GT galloped
away with top honors. The Mustang�s big bursts of power were the
perfect thing for pulling through a tight corner, and its lively tail was easy
to swing around when it was time to tighten up the turning radius. It is
during driving like this that you realize why most race cars are rear-wheel
drive. The little Mitsubishi was a hoot to take down that hill, but just
couldn�t get through as quickly or gracefully because of the heavy
front-end push that plagues most front-drive cars. The Mitsubishi also suffered
in the braking category, its discs fading faster than the Mustang�s, requiring
longer stopping distances when setting up for a corner. The combination of a
smoother power delivery, better stopping ability, more attractive sheetmetal and
better at-the-limit handling, proved to be the determining factor when Edmund�s
fickle editors decided to give the Mustang the nod."

You left out the following from the most wanted list on Edmunds (or did you
accidently overlook these?):

FULLSIZE: Ford Crown Victoria (twin - Mercury Grand Marquis)
SPORT SEDAN: Ford SVT Contour
SPORTS CAR: Chevrolet Camaro Z28 (twins - Pontiac Firebird Formula and
            Trans Am)
FULLSIZE: Chrysler LHS (close relative � Chrysler 300M)
SPORT COUPE: Ford SVT Mustang Cobra
SPORTS CAR: Chevrolet Corvette
CONVERTIBLE: Dodge Viper RT/10
COMPACT PICKUP: Dodge Dakota
MINIVAN: Dodge Caravan
FULL-SIZE PICKUP: Ford F-250 SuperDuty
COMPACT SUV: Jeep Cherokee
BEST OFFROAD: Jeep Wrangler
FULLSIZE PICKUP: Ford F-150 Lightning



x-no-archive: yes
>kpayne@ford-trucks.com (kpayne@ford-trucks.com) wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> >In article <36b47f13.177412675@news.atl.bellsouth.net>,
>> >kpayne@ford-trucks.com <kpayne@ford-trucks.com> wrote:
>> >>x-no-archive: yes
>> >It's easy 
>> >to check out...
>> 
>> I did.  www.edmunds.com
>
>OK Ken, I'll play.  At your beloved Edmunds.com, here is a tidbit for
>you (don't worry, I'm just starting):
>
>	http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/mostwanted/
>
>How these were selected is defined there.  One example of unanimous
>choices explicitly mentioned, by the way, was the Honda Accord as the
>best midsize under $25,000 - note that it was NOT the Ford Taurus.
>
>In the $10,000 to $25,000 group:
>
>	Subcompact:   Honda Civic
>	Compact:      VW New Beetle
>	Midsize:      Honda Accord V6 Sedan
>	Fullsize:     Ford Crown Victoria
>	Wagon:        Subaru Legacy Outback
>	Sport Sedan:  Ford SVT Contour
>	Sports Coupe: Honda Prelude
>	Convertible:  Mazda Miata
>	Sports Car:   Chevrolet Camaro/Pontiac Firebird
>
>Be happy there are some Fords there, but obviously the folks at Edmunds
>believe that Hondas in particular provide excellent value.
>
>In the $25,000 to $40,000 group:
>
>	Compact:     BMW 323i
>	Midsize:     Saab 9-5
>	Fullsize:    Chrysler LHS
>	Wagon:       Audi A4
>	Sport Sedan: Audi A4
>	Sport Coupe: Ford SVT Cobra
>	Convertible: BMW Z-3 2.8
>	Sports Car:  Corvette 
>
>Note - no Japanese cars in that group - Ken ought to like that, but then
>       this group appears to be for folks who want to spend money, not
>       get the absolute best value.
>
>There is not a single American car in the $40-55,000 group, so I won't
>list it here.  No Japanese cars either.  German, except for one Volvo.
>
>They have some comparison tests.  One is a Civic vs Escort.  The
>recommendation:
>
>   "So, is the Honda worth the extra few hundred bucks? Definitely."
>
>They had a family sedan comparison, with Buick Regal, Honda Accord,
>Mercury Sable, Oldsmobile Intrigue and Toyota Camry.  The Honda was
>$2,000 cheapest than the closest competitor, and the judgement?
>
>"The bottom line is that Honda builds the ultimate family sedan. A low
>price, a high level of refinement, a cavernous interior, and a
>well-deserved reputation for reliability put the Accord at the top of
>the heap. Even a loaded EX model with leather, alloy wheels, power
>moonroof, automatic climate control, CD player, premium sound, and
>steering-wheel radio controls stickers for less than $25,000. Does
>Honda still make the best family sedan? The answer is yes."
>
>They said the Olds would have won, but...
>
>"had the Intrigue not suffered an unknown problem the last day we drove the
>car, the uninspiring Accord would not have been declared our winner. The
>ailing Olds underscored an important and relevant point about the Honda.
>People buy Accords because they know that, with very few exceptions, the
>car isn't going to break, it won't leave them stranded, and it won't require
>numerous trips to the dealer. An Accord is a known entity. You buy it, you
>drive it a while, it serves its purpose, and when you're done with it,
>you get back a healthy bit of your cash outlay because it holds its
>value so well. Exciting? No. But it does its job competently and with
>little fuss."
>
>You might have got your meaningless numbers from Edmunds but it sounds
>like they think this Honda has good value.
>
>Ah, another Escort vs Civic comparison.  Guess what, the Civic won.
>Notes include the lament that the comparable Civic to the ZX2 Escort
>costs less.  And this test is from somebody who bought an Escort over
>a Civic in 1994.  Here is what he had to say about that:
>
>"My only lament about selecting the Ford over the Honda in 1994 was that
>my resale value sank rapidly, and the thing rattled and clattered more
>than my mother-in-law. It took three years of payments and keeping mileage
>off the odometer before the car was worth more than I owed on it. Otherwise,
>it never broke, and it performed exactly as I expected it to."
>
>I am riding around in a 1994 Honda right now and it neither rattles nor
>clatters.
>
>Then there is the sport sedan test:
>
>	1st: Nissan Maxima SE
>	2nd: VW Passat GLS
>	3rd: Ford Contour SE V-6
>	4th: Mazda 626 ES V-6 (didn't you say they are a division of Ford now?)
>
>In another one:
>
>	1st: BMW 540i
>	2nd: Lexus GS400
>	3rd: Cadillac Seville STS
>
>A Ford Contour SVT did win vs an Audi A4-L8T and an Infiniti G-20 -
>good thing they didn't have a Honda in that one.  ;)
>
>Long term test notes:
>
>	People seem to like the 97 Camry and the 96 Integra.
>
>	Lots of interesting notes on the 98 Ranger:
>
>	"we just recently noticed that it is refusing to go into 4WD low, so
>	a trip back to the dealer is planned. 
>
>	Reactions are less complimentary from our resident off-road expert who
>	says the Ranger "rattles like a diamondback off road." The noise
>	comes from where the front and rear doors meet as well
>	as from the dash area, which has been squeaking more and more as the
>	miles accumulate and the temperature drops. 
>
>	The cold weather has all but dismantled the truck's
>	bedliner. Every major panel now has a wave in it and the liner has
>	separated from the bed, leaving gaps for water and snow to get
>	trapped beneath it. This could eventually lead to rust and has us
>	ready to test out the "lifetime warranty" that Rugged Liner is
>	supposed to offer on all its products. 
>
>	The 5,000-mile service was performed at Phil Long Ford in Colorado
>	Springs and cost us $38.50. Phil Long didn't have an opportunity to
>	check out the insubordinate electric passenger window, but a few days
>	later we took the truck to Burt Ford in Littleton, Colo.  The service
>	department lubricated the window for free, stating that it was covered
>	by the warranty. It now works without so much as a hiccup, but we'll
>	keep a close watch to see if the shutter comes back."
>
>So this truck has just 5,000 miles on it?  Boy that sounds like quality
>and value to me.  Granted, nothing's perfect, but...
>
>I could go on, but why bother.  Ken won't here a thing I say...
>
>> >NOw, compare that to all the Honda Civics, Mazda 323/Proteges, and Toyota 
>> >Corollas that are still going strong. Ever notice why you see LOTS of '80s
>> >Corollas, LOTS of 323/Proteges, and especially LOTS of mid-late 80's Civics, 
>> >but NOT MANY EARLY ESCORTS (and lots of the ones you DO see are clapped out 
>> >now) anymore in traffic? 
>> 
>> I don't seen many 80s Japanese cars on the road except the occasional smog
>> belcher with save the whales stickers.
>
>You see what you want to see, Ken.  There's a ton of fine running Civics
>and Corollas out there, that's for sure.
> 
>> >Even though probably about 10 times as many Escorts 
>> >were initially produced than each of those other cars? 
>> 
>> Your numbers are off.
>
>This is true enough (no way there are ten times as many Escorts sold
>in the USA as Civics or Corollas).
> 
>> >Try *374K+* on an '87 Honda Accord... and 
>> >it's still on it's ORIGINAL ENGINE, TRANNY, CLUTCH AND DRIVE AXLES... it 
>> >belongs to a friend of mine, about 1.5 miles away from the house here as 
>> >I type... he drives it to work every day!
>> 
>> And its still an ugly pos.
>
>Yeah, but it runs, and it's cheap to run.  That's called value, Ken.
> 
>> Actually, the Yugo engine is a Fiat design that is supposedly pretty
>> reliable (though it does require frequent valve adjustments like
>> motorcycle engines).  The problem is that most Yugo owners don't have
>> the cash to take care of them.  Don't get me wrong, I hate the Yugo.
>
>The real problem is that parts are virtually impossible to get since
>the civil war broke out in Yugoslavia (now Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia,
>Macedonia, etc).
>
>
>-- 
>John S. Cronin 				   phone: (404) 894-6164
>Office of Information Technology Operations and Engineering 0715
>Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
>Internet: john.cronin@oit.gatech.edu

-Ken Payne
Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com
To send me email: kpayne@*spam-remove*ford-trucks.com


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