🚀 go-pugleaf

: > Not at all, but whos to say the armed rebellion wouldn't be against a
: > tyrannical federal government?  Its not like history isn't full of such
: > things happening.  But if you recall your CD training you don't have
: > police powers - you defer to the LOCAL authorities.  Only in extreme cases
: > of martial law do you have the latitude to not defer, and even then you
: > are constatly operating under the constraint of: These are AMERICAN
: > CITIZENS NOT THE ENEMY.

: Thank GOD someone had the nerve to stand up and say that. I for one am
: sick and tired of people bending over backwards to tell American
: Citizens that they had better cower before the might of the US Military
: like the Russians under the KGB. I only wish I thought for a minute that
: most of the military remembered they are intended to keep the borders
: secure or carry out the national will _ABROAD_.

Its sometimes a hard lesson to teach a soldier.  Soldiers are
indoctrinated to focus on Enemies, theres a clear psychological advatage
in demonizing your foe, it makes it trivial to kill them - they're not
people in essence - when we as Soldiers are asked to conduct CD training,
its hard to supress that indoctrination, without recognizing that fault in
our approach.  Its every leaders responsibility to ensure that all his men
(and in some case women) undewrstand that these "rioters" are NOT the
enemny.  They're the very people we exist to protect.

Hell, if its a local Guard unit you might even KNOW some of the people.

The worst thing a unit can ever do is become so engrossed in dispelling a
riot, and so riled up over it that they lose control and start seeing the
rioters as enemies - and then they stop being people.


: > 
: > I have no doubts where the US Military will take sides, if the Oath we all
: > took is any indicator, we should be standing with the constitution FIRST.

: Absolutely and with no arguments whatsoever. In fact if there is a
: single reason to frag your lieutenent stateside, that is it - him giving
: an order to execute Americans, or any order that is clearly prefatory to
: such an action. Leave that sort of thing up to the BATF.

Well, the nice thing about the UCMJ is that it requires a soldier to be
responsible for ALL OF HIS ACTIONS.  IF you follow and illegal order, you
have no excuse.  In practice though, its a tough call for a young solider,
if you're wrong and you said No - well its off to jail for you too, for
insuboridination.  Its not perfect, but it beats the alternative I suppose
(nothing at all perhaps)B

: > So if that armed insurrection were to overthrow a government which was
: > trashing the constitution, I hope it would be lead by the defenders of
: > that piece of paper.

: Sorry, I think that the military may be sufficiently restructured that
: most soldiers would, like "good germans" simply follow orders if given
: the appropriate pep-talk first.

I dunno about this one.  MY unit was preety Gung Ho about not playing by
the rules if the Feds went 86.  In fact, I don't think I ever heard such
Anti-Clinton anywhere else but in my last Grunt Unit.  People used to
discuss what would happen if the Federal Government lost its marbles and
decided to play God.

Neverthless, theres no way to tell unless it happens, and historically the
Military in other contries has sometimes been the very vessel to start a
tyrannical takeover and put itself into the position of High Lord.

: It is essential that the public retain the means to at least convey
: their displeasure at the notion of the military being turned against
: them. While they might get the shit stomped out of them for expressing
: their displeasure, still if you only have a pop-gun or molotov-cocktail
: against artillery, it's better than only having harsh language as a
: resort. Cause a "good german" soldier has got his ears all full of that
: pep-talk, and he can't hear your harsh language.

Given the small size and wide deployement of the US Military, the somewhat
professional nature of its members, and the large body of Veterans that
have left the services (Present company included) - I suspect that the US
Military would have a tough go of it if they did try to "take over
America".  Granted, they do have all the big guns, as it were, but you'd
be suprised by what a simple "Grunt" can do to a Tank if you know what
you're doing.

Besides, war is more than Firepower.