🚀 go-pugleaf

John M Atkinson wrote:
> 
> Thus Spake klaatu <klaatu@clark.net>:
> 
> %> First you have to demonstrate that the Federal Government is violating the
> %> Constitution.
> %
> %Ruby Ridge. Waco.
> 
> Something a little more obviously a long-term policy.  Any one who thinks taking
> down a handful of fanatics is just cause for revolt has mental problems.

Egads, I certainly don't back Koresh, you know. And Weaver was something
of a loser and just not the sort of person that a raving liberal like
myself holds in high esteem, him being white-power and all of that.

The point is this: Weaver's _wife_ for god's sake got "turned off" by a
sniper under basically insane rules-of-engagement, and that was _policy_
not an individual acting improperly. he was doing his job just like it
said in the book. When the FBI or whoever can murder a non-combatant and
walk, for "doing their job", that is time to get outraged - the perosn
they shot might have been despicable _but that is for the courts to
decide_.

And yes, in the end this has been resolved, the rules of engagement are
changed and it is, we all hope, unlikely that such a thing will happen
the same way. But in the eyes of many, this was simply indicative of a
slide towards usurpation of the role of judge, jury and executioner.

Same deal with Waco - buncha religious weirdoes all holed up out in the
sticks, etc etc - but burning people alive is just not cool. And there
is a huge stink of coverup and buck-passing that is odious even to
long-time washingtonians. And if we locals think it stinks, you can bet
that out in the sticks somewhere there are people who are just going
nuts over it, wondering when it's going to happen to them.

> 
> %>  Second you have to demonstrate that you have a prayer of winning.
> %
> %So let's see, you are baldly stating "citizen, you must cower and kiss
> %ass because I have a bigger gun than you do?"
> 
> Civil war is the worst of all evils (if you doubt that, find your nearest Roman
> history buff, and ask about the Year of Four Emperors).  For me personally to go
> along, I have to be sure there is a reasonable chance of achieving more than
> simply violence with no results, other than a lot of dead bodies.

Absolutely. The thing is, we _do_ still live in a democracy, though it
may be less than perfect - the public outrage over Waco and Ruby Ridge
has caused more of a revision of rules of engagement and general policy
than any number of home-made bombs could cause - in fact, someone's
home-made bomb itself only provoked outrage of a scale unprecedented
since Pearl Harbor.

Oh, PS, I'm about halfway through Gibbon's Decline & Fall, etc. Fun
reading. I wish more people would read this sort of thing. I can't agree
with you more regarding reasons to avoid outright civil war.

> 
> John M. Atkinson
> jatkinso@gmu.edu
> "A nation which despises its soldiers will all too soon
> have a despicable army
>                  --Jerry Pournelle

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