🚀 go-pugleaf

Thus Spake mshinn@osf1.gmu.edu (Michael T Shinn):

%John M Atkinson (jatkinso@ANTISPAMgmu.edu) wrote:
%: The Virginia Militia Law.  I'll quote it all if you like.
%
%Are you actually trying to make the superfulous argument that the Virginia
%Nation Guard - part of the US Army no less - is the state militia?  That
%somehow the Guard is created by STATE law?

			Article 1
			Classification of Militia
Para 44-1.  Composition of miliita.--The militia of the Commonwealth of Virginia
shall consist of all able-bodied citizens of this Commonwealth and all other
able-bodied persons resident in this Commonwealth who have declared thier
intnention to become citizens of the United States, who are at least sixteen
years of age, and, except as hereinafter provided, not more than fifty-five
years of age.  The militia shall be divided into four classes, The National
Guard, which includes the Army National Guard and the Air National Guard, the
Virginia State Defence Force, the naval militia, and the unorganized militia.

Sounds like it to me.  

%Where on earth do you think the fuding for the Guard comes from?  The
%funding fairy?  The last time I got an ARTEP in the Guard my evaluators
%were all FEDERAL - not State people.  I can follow for the money trail can
%you?

Militia Act of 1903 is what formed the National Guard.  Note the title.  Anyway,
under the provisions of that law, militia units which met a certain standard
would be supplied and equipped by the Army.  Previous to that time, the
Commonwealth's forces were known as the 'Virginia Volunteers'.  

%: %when I was in the guard, we never considered ourselves a milityia.  The
%: %last time I checked my uniform still said "U.S. Army" - but then again
%: %what the hell do I know - I was only an Infantryman for Uncle Sam (Active
%: %and reserves) for Ten years.
%
%: It does-but check the State law authorizing the Guard to exist.
%
%And then check the Federal laws that govern the guard.  IF you think for
%one second that the Virginia Guard would follow the Governor and not the
%President if it were asked to do otherwise, then you missed ever word of
%your oath.  Its *all* about upholding and defending the constituional of
%the United States - not the consitution of the State of Virginia.

You are right, BUT it does mention the constitution of the Commonwealth of
Virginia.  And as far as another Civil War, any scenario is so far-fetched that
what-ifs are meaningless.

%You can play semantics all you want on this one, but the fact remains that
%the Virginia Guard is 100% a part of the US Army.  And the US Army is
%*not* a militia.  Its an Army.  Go look that one up.

Yes, Yes and No.  Yes, the National Guard is part of the Army.  Yes the US Army
is an Army.  However, the National Guard fills a dual role.  Say it slowly...
D-U-A-L. R-O-L-E.

%So the fact that a unit was once a militia does not mean that it is a
%militia.  If we buy into that logic, then a large measure of the units
%today would be flying confederate flags.

There is one on my Batallion crest, but hey, who's counting.  Due to the fact
that the WBTS was a civil war, the regiments on the loosing side ended up in the
same Army.  

%Let me be clear about this one, the National Guard is a full blown arm of
%the US Military - its got Staff level offices in the Pentagon - its part
%of the Military, under federal control and in most cases its armories are
%on FEDERAL property. Except for SMR, all the bases are owned by the US
%Government.  

I am very aware of that-one of my good friends works in the NGB retention
office.

%Gratuitous assertion.  Just as gratuituously denied.  I'll give you the
%benefit of the doubt though, I challenge you to support that supposition.
%(Otherwise, by the position of the null hypothesis, its a false assertion)

OK, I'll go halfway on this one.  The NRA vociferously supports those who affirm
the basic premise of the Whiskey Rebellion, which is that the Federal Government
does not have the power to tax (whether it be in general or them personally).  

%: OK, who in hell would this hypothetical militia fight?  If criminals, then
%: vigilante.  If armed invasion, let's just say anything that gets this far is
too
%: mean for a couple of rednecks to stop with hunting rifles.  If the Federal
%: Government, fsck them, I'll be helping hunt them down.
%
%Thats your opinion.  History doesn't support it though.  The American
%revoluntion was won by partisians.  And so was Vietnam.  But why let facts
%stand in the way of rhetoric eh?

Really?  Let's take this backwards.  Vietnam-was won by the conventional forces
of the PAVN.  I invite you to HIST 386, Sec 002 The VIetnam War.  Meets in
Thompson Hall, room 138 on Wednesday nights at 7:20 pm.  We just covered this
last week, but I'm sure the prof would be happy to explain it to you.  

American Revolution-I don't suppose those 4,000 French Marines or the fleet
parked off Yorktown had _anything_ to do with US victory.  Nothing at all.  I
also would challenge the definition of the Continental Army as a partisan force.
Especially after von Stuben turned them into a conventional army using
Prussian-style drill.

Next point-name a insurgency that suceeded without outside support.  There's
been one in history, and it's obscure enough that I doubt most people will pick
up on it.


John M. Atkinson
jatkinso@gmu.edu
"A nation which despises its soldiers will all too soon 
have a despicable army
                 --Jerry Pournelle