🚀 go-pugleaf

klaatu (klaatu@clark.net) wrote:

: > : The fire started inside the compound.  And there were no 'tanks' present.  I
: > : shouldn't have to explain the definition of tank to an infantry type.
: > 
: > Thats not my point.  My point is that by creating a seige that feed right
: > into their paranoid mythology gave their leader exactly what he needed to
: > convince his followers to die.

: Absolutely. But you must realize that one of the worst things one can
: do, is to give a person in a paranoid mindset evidence that they're _not
: paranoid enough_. The BATF and their compadres gave all of the people
: inside absolute assurance that everything they had feared was coming to
: pass.

Thats precisely my point.  The Federal forces at Waco (call them whatever
you want, I'm using the wider phrase because so many agencies were there I
can't think of a better way to describe them.) had a complete monoply on
Information to the compound, total control over avenues of approach, and a
complete lock down on the occupants.  In short, by possing no immediate
danger to anyone - the impatience with which the FBI moved was
unwarranted.

When you're dealing with a NUT you have to play with different rules than
when you're playing "Lets go get Dilenger!".  I contend thats the
attitude, or something like it, that caused the FBI to arrive at the
conclusion that waiting out the Waco nutbars was not a good idea, and that
driving Bradleys up to their doors was, and would lead a positive outcome
for the cult members.

I do not understand what the rush was.  

: > I still contend, that the FBI is equally to blame for not considering the
: > implications of such a short sighted attack plan, and ATTACK plan it was.
: > TheseAmerican Citizens were treated like enemies of the state - I for one
: > was very disturbed by the use of Military Equipment against American
: > Citizens that posed NO immediate and Clear Danger to their neighbors.
: > 
: > What was the god damn rush?  Its not like they had Hostages or something.

: I occasionally pray that it wasn't as an abreaction to something that I
: had circulating on some BBSes (including one in that region of Texas),
: as it turned out my predictions of a fictional California Cannibal Cult
: ( http://www.clark.net/pub/klaatu/interlude.html ) have since been
: all-too well borne-out by such things as the Aum Shinrikyo sarin
: attacks, etc - who knows, these guys may have thought this was actual
: intel. Or it may simply have been a case of professional paranoids
: coming up against unprofessional paranoids, and going in loaded for bear
: when it was not bear they were up against.

Yep.  You can't handle cults like your some average rational group.
You're talking about people that aren't operating with same ideas
about reality you and I have.  

: >  You'd think
: > that Jonestown might have taught us something, hopefully the Texas
: > Seperatists demonstrate a positive change in law enforcement.

: We can only pray. Law-enforcement must realize, and evidently does, that
: some people are in certain frames of mind to be willing to attempt to
: withdraw from the union, go to ultra-violent modes, etc, and the proper
: attack would be one of psychological operations, not of overwhelming
: overresponse. I can think of very few situations where a simple
: seige-and-wait approach wouldn't turn out to be the best solution.

Frankly, I have to agree.  Even though my professional training was one of
war, I don't think if you intend to bring people out of a situtation like
that I alive you can do it with an attitude that force will always work.

: Stomping the crap out of people for having a different political or
: worldview outlook is not particularly civilized. Convincing them to get
: a fair and equitable hearing instead of getting themselves killed is a
: civilized approach.

Indeed.  Its easy to kill people, it hard to convince them to turn
themselves in and give up.  The government isn't in the business of
easy solutions, its supposed to be in the business of making the hard
solutions happen, IMHO.

M. Shinn