🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <896.Jul2219.16.3491@kramden.acf.nyu.edu> brnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) writes:
>Most people in favor of programmer licensing use the argument that
>engineers and many other professionals are licensed. What's so different
>about programmers?
>
>I'll tell you what's different. There's no course of study in
>programming. You can't get a degree in programming, because few people
>know how to teach it and fewer know how to test it.

Fine, who would WANT a degree in PROGRAMMING ? Programming is a small
portion of the field of Computer Science and there are quite a few
people walking around that would laugh at you for saying that you
couldn't get a degree in Computer Science because few people know how
to teach it and fewer know how to test for it. Getting a degree in
programming would be the same as getting a degree in mechanical
drawing, which is only a small part of the field of engineering.


>                                                    Programming is an
>art, not a science, but unlike most artistic endeavors it's been around
>for much less than a century.

The techniques that are the basis for an *art* can and are taught, and
can be tested for. A "gift" for art cannot be taught, and it is this
"gift" that separates the so-so and good from the great. The
techniques for programming can and are taught, and can be tested for.
The "gift" for Computer Science is the same gift as for engineering,
Visualization. 

The "art" of engineering is being able to visualize a problem, visualize a
solution, and translate that solution into an ordered set of symbols
(ie equations). The "art" of Computer Science is being able to visualize a
problem, visualize a solution to the problem, and translate that
solution into an ordered set of symbols (i.e. program).

Programming is simply translating the solution into an ordered set of
symbols. You control EXACTLY what the computer does. If it does
something that you don't think it should, its NOT because of magic or
anything else other than YOU made a mistake or YOU didn't fully
understand what you're doing.

Schools CAN and DO test for the techniques of Computer Science
(known as comprehensive exams) the same as they CAN and DO test
for the techniques of Engineering. The testing and licensing of
engineers is to ensure they know the *techniques* of engineering, NOT
to ensure they have the "gift" of engineering.

A computer is a tool just as a hammer is a tool, you have to know the
techniques of using it properly or else you could damage yourself or
someone/something else. A carpentar is licensed based on his/her
knowledge of the techniques of the field. A barber is licensed based
on his/her knowledge of the techniques of the field. An engineer is
licensed based on his/her knowledge of the techniques of the field.

In the field of computer science, there are certain "techniques" that
are widely used and can be applied regardless of the language or
application, such as FIFO and LIFO, queues, stacks, linked lists,
sorts, whatever. If licensing of programmers was to be used, tests
for knowledge of and ability to use the basic tools of the trade
should be used. The knowledge of the syntax of a language has nothing
to do with a programmers ability. The lack of knowledge of these basic
tools would severly impact the usefulness and productivity of this
programmer.

The question of licensing is questionable at best. Trying to claim the
field of programming is significantly different than any and all other
professions is ludicrous and just demonstrates a lack of understanding
of the underlying concepts of computer science. Computer programming
is a science, but has elements of art in the SAME fashion as
Engineering is a science but has elements of art.

>
>When most universities have a Department of Programming or at least a
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>recognized programming specialization inside the engineering department,
>we might have some basis for licensing programmers. Until then, it is
>simply irresponsible to even think that we can say what a programmer
>should know. We can't.
>
>---Dan

As opposed to a Department of Computer Science, or Department of
Information Sciences, or Department of Software Engineering???
What school do you go to??? MOST schools have a department of 
Computer Science or something similar.

Sorry, you're a little bit out of date...most CS departments STARTED
as just teaching programming, but soon realized that it just wasn't
enough to give the students a good understanding of the tools they
were using.



John Burton


+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| John Burton                                                        |
| G & A Technical Software                                           |
| jcburt@gatsibm.larc.nasa.gov                                       |
| burton@asdsun.larc.nasa.gov                                        |
| jcburt@cs.wm.edu                                                   |
|                                                                    |
| Disclaimer: Hey, what can I say...These are *my* views, not those  |
|             of anyone else, be they employer, school, or government|
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