GNU su doesn't restrict root access? Why?

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3 total messages Started by Jason Merrill Mon, 12 Oct 1992 05:06

#893

Author: Jason Merrill
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 05:06

20 lines
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>From the su man page (shellutils 1.7):

     This program does not support a "wheel group" that	restricts
     who can su	to super-user accounts,	because	that is	fascist.

Fascist?  My own opinion is that restricting superuser access is a valid
security measure; can you give me a single valid reason that non-wheel (or
group 'root', on our system) users should be allowed to su to root?

On our system, staff members have more cryptic passwords than do most
users, so that would-be intruders have to guess two difficult passwords to
break root.  If they could go through a normal user's account, their path
would be somewhat easier.

Assuming that only system managers will be allowed to su to root, why not
code the restriction in su, rather than depending on the security of the
password?

Jason Merrill
jason@jarthur.claremont.edu

GNU su doesn't restrict root access? Why?

#900

Author: Richard Stallman
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:27

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What does it mean to resist fascism?

Sometimes a few of the users try to hold total power over all the
rest.  For example, in 1984, a few users at the MIT AI lab decided to
seize power by changing the operator password on the Twenex system and
keeping it secret from everyone else.  (I was able to thwart this coup
and give power back to the users by patching the kernel, but I
wouldn't know how to do that in Unix.)

However, occasionally the rulers do tell someone.  Under the usual su
mechanism, once someone learns the root password who sympathizes with
the ordinary users, he can tell the rest.  The "wheel group" feature
would make this impossible, and thus cement the power of the rulers.

I'm on the side of the masses, not that of the rulers.  If you are
used to supporting the bosses and sysadmins in whatever they do, you
might find this idea strange at first.

Re: GNU su doesn't restrict root access? Why?

#901

Author: Malte Uhl
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 09:06

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In article <9210130527.AA02711@mole.gnu.ai.mit.edu>, rms@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Richard Stallman) writes:
|> What does it mean to resist fascism?
|> 
|> Sometimes a few of the users try to hold total power over all the
|> rest.  For example, in 1984, a few users at the MIT AI lab decided to
|> seize power by changing the operator password on the Twenex system and
|> keeping it secret from everyone else.  (I was able to thwart this coup
|> and give power back to the users by patching the kernel, but I
|> wouldn't know how to do that in Unix.)
|> 
|> However, occasionally the rulers do tell someone.  Under the usual su
|> mechanism, once someone learns the root password who sympathizes with
|> the ordinary users, he can tell the rest.  The "wheel group" feature
|> would make this impossible, and thus cement the power of the rulers.
|> 
[ ... ]

If this someone knows the root password, she or he will usually have the power
to change the members in the wheel group, especially to delete every member
in it. Then everyone is allowed to su to root.
So this is almost pointless.

Of course, it is a matter of policy to code su one way or the other. I'd just
be grateful if you wouldn't call me fascist for supporting the security
topic.

Malte

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