🚀 go-pugleaf

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:00:34 GMT, "FNO" <Me@home.ca> spake thusly:

><snip>
>> >> >Atheists don't address the matter very well at all. An atheistic dogma
>is
>> >> >still a dogma; an atheistic belief is still a belief.
>> >>
>> >> Actually, no. Atheism isn't a belief, it's a non-belief.
>> >>
>> >Actually, it is a belief and it is faith.  Faith is the acceptance of
>> >something in the absence of proof.  An athiest can no more prove that
>there
>> >is no deity than a theist can prove there is one.  The only non-believers
>> >are those who don't really know one way or the other.
>>
>> We are getting into hair splitting territory here. I do not believe
>> that there is a god, but I don't KNOW for certain. Unfortunately, the
>> bulk of believers I have met talk with absolute certainty of the
>> existence of god.
>>
>
>Its an important distinction.  Many atheists are pretty nasty to those
>"narrow-minded theists" as theists can be to dissenters from their faith.
>Only those who aren't really sure couldn't really care what your beliefs
>are.  I am a non-believer; not because I can say for can't say for certain
>one what or the other, but because I also am not sure one way or the other.
>One the one hand, it would be easy to believe there is no God.  However, too
>much of the world around us defies explanation to have been by 'accident'.
>But, on the other hand, too many of the so-called miracles of faith are
>perfectly explainable.

You and I are in agreement here, then. I have more of a problem with
someone who seriously thanks god for helping them win some game or
lottery or something like that. I have the biggest problem with people
who claim that my daughter's Autism is god's punishment for being a
non-believer. That has actually happened.

>> >In addition, from a logical perspective, it is has much more risk than an
>> >theistic belief.  If a theist is wrong, they don't really lose; that's
>all
>> >there is.  But if they are right, they win.  For an athiest, if they are
>> >right they don't really win; again, that is all there is.  But if they
>are
>> >wrong, they lose.  Consequently, a theist cannot lose, and an atheist
>cannot
>> >win.
>>
>> Pascal's Wager has one inherent problem, what if the believer believes
>> in the wrong god? In other words, what will Allah do with Christians
>> and Jews in the hereafter?
>>
>I don't imagine He will care.  But even if He does, a theist has MUCH better
>odds of winning; ie. better than zero

According to some of the believers, he will care. 

>> >An atheist, nevertheless, holds as firm a belief, in the absence of any
>> >proof, that there is no deity, as a theist holds the belief, again in the
>> >absence of proof, that there is.
>>
>> I, quite honestly, have never met an atheist who firmly believes that
>> there is no god, only that they don't believe that there is one.
>>
>Then you should read Skeptic.  You'll see many.

I have no doubt that they exist, I just haven't met them in my
travels. Sometimes I like starting a fight, just for sport. ;-)

-- 
jbuchy@hotmail.com 
(Jim, single dad to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94)

"What, Me Worry?" A. E. Newman

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