🚀 go-pugleaf

In Newsgroup interlog.general, richard@interlog.com (Richard Sexton) wrote:

>The Alternic seems to be picking up momentum. 5X the number of sites
>can resolve EDNS names now compared to a month ago. 

It's Autumn, isn't it?  The nuts are falling out of the trees at
vrx.net.  Even Tom Evans has crawled out from under his
reptilian rock, trying to be the latter-day Kibo. 

Richard, 5 X zero is still zero.

>I'd doubt this is solely because of http://orgies.xxx;

Very definitely not.

>if you can't resolve that name, your provider doesn't have EDNS.

Thank gawd.

>See also http://www.alternic.net.
 
You misplelld "http://www.alternut.nic". HTH.

>Richard Sexton
>root@cabal.org

TINC! 

How are the goldfish, by the way?

-- 
      acs@inetrex.com [ Craig Sherwood from Toronto, Canada ]

     

In article <c5+LycdqBA8K088yn@interlog.com>,
Craig Sherwood <acs@inetrex.com> wrote:
>In Newsgroup interlog.general, richard@interlog.com (Richard Sexton) wrote:
>
>>The Alternic seems to be picking up momentum. 5X the number of sites
>>can resolve EDNS names now compared to a month ago. 
>
>Richard, 5 X zero is still zero.

2.4% of the entire net can resolve these names, up from .5%
according to the latest metric.


-- 
Richard Sexton
root@cabal.org

In article <50pki0$645@gold.interlog.com>, Richard Sexton <richard@interlog.com> wrote:
>
>2.4% of the entire net can resolve these names, up from .5%
>according to the latest metric.

    Don't forget to tell your customers that registering a domain
under a new TLD will mean 97.6% of the net won't be able to reach
them.  Throwing out the creation and administration of new TLD's to
the masses is not the way to do it.  I'll wait until I hear a formal
announcement from the InterNIC or IANA before I touch my named.root.
-- 
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net)
Senior Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp.
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"

In article <50qmus$cj1@news.interlog.com>,
Andrew Silliker <silliker@gold.interlog.com> wrote:
>Brian Tao (taob@zot.io.org) wrote:
>: them.  Throwing out the creation and administration of new TLD's to
>: the masses is not the way to do it.  I'll wait until I hear a formal
>: announcement from the InterNIC or IANA before I touch my named.root.
>
>I'm not normally very religious, but.. Amen.

Get up of your knees, Andy. ;-)


Ok, you're probably never going to hear an announcement out of the InterNIC;
IANA has posted a new draft for new TLD's.

The AlterNIC new TLD's are *experimantal* and in that sense, IANA
approved as such. Before the new year, several new registries
are going to pop up and there is a non zero chance that the
experimantel names registered to date will be grandfathered
and be viable names at that time.

At any rate, mcs.net ans alternic web pages go out of their
way to be ery explicit about the experimental nature of the
new tld's.

Alternic has it's own set of root servers. The "old guard"
is not real happy about this, but thus far they have
proven to be more reliable than the other root servers.

I've done the alternic EDNS hack, it works fine. Zero problems in 
3 months.

I wouldnt council anybody to get *only* a new tld name (such as
cyber.cafe), but with the name cybercafe.com* going for $30K US
it might be a viable alternative as more and more site do the EDNS
shuffle, when used in addition to names from the the current tld's.

Considering how fast "good" domain names go, and what some of them
are worth today, it may be prudent to grab any name you may want
in the future. There certainly is no guarentee the names will
be grandfathered, but they may well be. 

Disclaimer: I have no relationship to the alternic or mcs.net
other than as a user. Their stuff works.






* see http://www.bestdomains.com
-- 
Richard Sexton
root@cabal.org

In article <50qoog$mom@gold.interlog.com>, Richard Sexton <richard@interlog.com> wrote:
>
> Alternic has it's own set of root servers. The "old guard" is not real
> happy about this, but thus far they have proven to be more reliable
> than the other root servers.

    I'll reserve judgement until more than 3% of the Internet is
hitting the Alternic roots for DNS queries.  What sort of screening
procedures and performance standards are there to ensure that future
Alternic root servers are as robust and reliable?  Granted that the
traditional root servers aren't without their bad days, but they have
been reliable and are used by 100% of the Internet.  I'm not a huge
fan of NSI either, but I don't see the Alternic as a solution or even
a viable alternative at this point.  Perhaps my judgement is tainted
by the politcking in the newdom list, and by Jim Fleming's absurd
comments when promoting the Alternic.

> Considering how fast "good" domain names go, and what some of them are
> worth today, it may be prudent to grab any name you may want in the
> future. There certainly is no guarentee the names will be
> grandfathered, but they may well be. 

    If they aren't, you're screwed if your business depends on it.  If
you're just holding on to it, you'll probably need a "real" domain
name in the meantime.  Back to square one.  Some people say that the
new TLD's will solve namespace collisions.  Technically they will, but
what's to stop someone who already has cybercafe.com from also
grabbing cybercafe.net, cyber.cafe, cybercafe.biz, cybercafe.www,
cybercafe.mall, etc., etc.?  And if they don't, I would think twice
before I registered cybercafe.biz, simply because of the potential
confusion between my domain name and cybercafe.com.

    I remain unconvinced (for now, anyway ;-)).
-- 
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net)
Senior Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp.
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"

Brian Tao (taob@zot.io.org) wrote:
: them.  Throwing out the creation and administration of new TLD's to
: the masses is not the way to do it.  I'll wait until I hear a formal
: announcement from the InterNIC or IANA before I touch my named.root.

I'm not normally very religious, but.. Amen.

Andrew

-- 
_____________________________________________________
|Andrew Silliker            | Stuff happens.        |
|Network Administrator      |-----------------------|
|InterLog Internet Services | silliker@interlog.com |
|Direct: 416-975-4438	    | Fax: 416-975-9639     |
-----------------------------------------------------

In article <50quj1$1hq@zap.io.org>, Brian Tao <taob@zap.io.org> wrote:
>
>    I'll reserve judgement until more than 3% of the Internet is
>hitting the Alternic roots for DNS queries.  


Geez Brian, 2.5% (current), 3% (your threshold) whats the difference ? ;-)

(I know, .5%)

>                                             What sort of screening
>procedures and performance standards are there to ensure that future
>Alternic root servers are as robust and reliable?  Granted that the
>traditional root servers aren't without their bad days, but they have
>been reliable and are used by 100% of the Internet.  

The current root servers are run by volunteers, and accoridng
to Bill Manning of IANA, this is "no longer working out". Their
recent meltdown should be an indication of that.

The alternic's root servers are a commercial concern, and being #2
they have to try harder ;-) While they have only been in operation
since Aug 1, they have, so far proven to be more reliable than
the previous root servers.

The EDNS hack, searcing the ALternic root servers if the
current root serves don't resolve a name seems sound in theory
and has worked well in operastion. I don't see the harm in it.

I too, would have concerns if Alternic said "use us instead
of root-servers.net", but if a customer of yours types in
http://www.orgies.xxx or http://www.carib.tour and these names
are not resolved by the current root servers, you have two choices:
1) don't search Alternic roots for failed names and return a "DNS Not Found"
error, or search the alternic roots and actually resolve the name.

Since running EDNS does not violate the most important
tenant of the Hypocratic oath ("do no harm") I fail
to see your reluctance.

>                                                     I'm not a huge
>fan of NSI either, but I don't see the Alternic as a solution or even
>a viable alternative at this point.

They're AN alternative, they're the ONLY alternative and I'm telling
you they do work. 


>                                      Perhaps my judgement is tainted
>by the politcking in the newdom list, and by Jim Fleming's absurd
>comments when promoting the Alternic.

I figured he was there to counter Perry Metzger's rabid and
rude detractions.

With Bill Manning of IANA having been caught in rather a large
lie about why he resigned (I assume he resigned), I can 
only think about what they say about the law and sausage:
"people who love both should watch neither being made".

>before I registered cybercafe.biz, simply because of the potential
>confusion between my domain name and cybercafe.com.

Or cybercafe.net or cyberface.org.


Cybercafe.com is on the auction block for $30K (http://www.bestdomains.com)
whereas cyberafe.biz is $30.

You'd pay more for a parking ticket.

-- 
Richard Sexton
root@cabal.org

Richard Sexton wrote:
[in a discussion with Brian Tao <taob@zap.io.org>]
> The EDNS hack, searcing the ALternic root servers if the
> current root serves don't resolve a name seems sound in theory
> and has worked well in operastion. I don't see the harm in it.

  Well, I like the experiment (although Karl seem convinced
I don't), but do have a scalability concern.

  If a second company starts up in competition to Alternic,
and starts providing root service, either as a primary source of data 
or as a fallback after the normal ones. then they can sell another
copy of cybercafe.biz to someone else entirely...
  and the end user customer will get 
the one in Toronto if their ISP subscribes to Alternic, the one in
Podunk if their ISP subscribes to  NotherNic, and one in Tnuctipun
if their ISP subscribes to MarsNic.

  This is, in my humble opiniom, a Bad Thing.

  It is solvable, but business pressures and the lack of a commons
(as in ``the tragedy of '') could prevent a solution.

  Personally I'd be cautious about what I registered in and liberal in
what I'd search (:-))

--dave
-- 
David Collier-Brown,  | Always do right. This will gratify some people
185 Ellerslie Ave.,   | and astonish the rest.        -- Mark Twain
Willowdale, Ontario   | davecb@hobbes.ss.org, unicaat.yorku.ca
N2M 1Y3. 416-223-8968 | http://java.science.yorku.ca/~davecb

In article <323449C2.31DFF4F5@hobbes.ss.org>,
David Collier-Brown  <davecb@hobbes.ss.org> wrote:
>Richard Sexton wrote:
>[in a discussion with Brian Tao <taob@zap.io.org>]
>> The EDNS hack, searcing the ALternic root servers if the
>> current root serves don't resolve a name seems sound in theory
>> and has worked well in operastion. I don't see the harm in it.
>
>  Well, I like the experiment (although Karl seem convinced
>I don't), but do have a scalability concern.
>
>  If a second company starts up in competition to Alternic,
>and starts providing root service, either as a primary source of data 
>or as a fallback after the normal ones. then they can sell another
>copy of cybercafe.biz to someone else entirely...
>  and the end user customer will get 
>the one in Toronto if their ISP subscribes to Alternic, the one in
>Podunk if their ISP subscribes to  NotherNic, and one in Tnuctipun
>if their ISP subscribes to MarsNic.


Obvioulsy a real concern.  The Alternic have been very careful
not to tep on anybody's toes. Suggestions that they resolve
names that have been cut off for lack of payment were met
by "That would be politically unexpedient".

The InterNIC can screw up bigtime (and do) and no harm will
come to them. Not so the Alternic. As a purely commercial
concern they have to A) Try harder (being #2 and all)
and B) Tread lightly. 

Their reord so far indicated they are doing just that.

Alternic has not caused any namespace collisions, and I would
put forth the notion that the party that does, is liable,
whether it be ALternic, IANA or MarsNIC.

-- 
Richard Sexton
root@cabal.org

Richard Sexton wrote:
> Obvioulsy a real concern.  The Alternic have been very careful
> not to tep on anybody's toes.

	Yes, and they deserve credit for that!

--dave
-- 
David Collier-Brown,  | Always do right. This will gratify some people
185 Ellerslie Ave.,   | and astonish the rest.        -- Mark Twain
Willowdale, Ontario   | davecb@hobbes.ss.org, unicaat.yorku.ca
N2M 1Y3. 416-223-8968 | http://java.science.yorku.ca/~davecb