🚀 go-pugleaf

Bill D wrote:
> 
> The Pervert wrote:
> 
> Pervert, (an excellent choice of names),

Thank you.  It is merely honest and somewhat light-hearted.  I have no
need to take myself overly seriously.

> ...you are every bit as scary as a
> rabid Pit Bull.  Every sentence in your post drips with prejudice and
> hatred.  I can only guess that you must have had a really bad experience
> with religion at some time in your life to fill you with such venom.
> Were you molested by a priest when you were a boy?  Tortured by an
> Inquisitor in some dark dungeon?  Burned at the stake in a former life?
> Whatever the cause, it's about time you got some counseling to help you
> get over it.

Actually, I was raised to think for myself (a dangerous concept) and to
question things.  True, I don't believe in being sold a philosophical
bill of goods.  My experience with organized religion is that it as
illogical and that I simply didn't believe in it.  My father, on the
other hand, was happily very active in his church.  I was never molested
nor abused by any priest, but I was raped by an ex-con when I was
fifteen and working a summer job.  But that's another issue entirely. 
Yes, I got counselling for the incident, and yes I got over it.  

So I'd guess that YOUR guess is pretty far off the mark and based on
nothing but your pre-conceived prejudices.  What a surprise.

> Not everyone who opposes abortion is a religious zealot.

IF you can read (and judging by your post, I'm not, at this point,
willing to make that assessment), you will discover that I did not say
that.  And that is one thing I object to.  Flame me for what I have
actually said, please... if you will bother to really read what was
written.  If you won't read what I have written, it is difficult to have
any rational discourse.

> I belong to no religious denomination and I am opposed to it on the 
> same grounds that the Catholics, the Jews, the Protestants, the 
> Moslems and many others do: because it is the taking of an innocent 
> human life.  Is this really so hard for anyone with half a brain 
> to understand?

THAT's my problem!  I have more than half a brain!  Perhaps if I did
have only half a brain I could think like you do.

If you believe that abortion is wrong, then I heartily support your not
having an abortion.  I also support your not compelling anyone else to
have an abortion.   The difference is that I am not seeking to impose my
religious/moral/spiritual perspective on you.  Is this so hard for you
to understand, half a brain or otherwise?  And since I am a male, I find
it highly presumptive to dictate to any woman what she should, or should
not be compelled to do with their bodies. (And for the record, I am a
fiscally conservative, non-dictatorial Republican.  There are such
creatures in the world.)

> Everything you said in your post indicates to me that is it *you* who is
> the zealot, the Savonarola, the terrorist.  There are too many people
> like
> you in the world today; extremists making the world a hell because you
> will
> not tolerate an opinion different from your own.

If you are able to, and WILLING to read, you will notice once again that
I do not seek to limit your legal right to a legal medical procedure. 
So much for my being an extremist.  You have stated that you believe
that abortion is the taking of an innocent human life.  I disagree.  Not
for the world would I ask you to change your religious belief for
yourself.  (So much for my being an extremist and not tolerating
different opinions.)  I simply will not support your imposing your
particular religious belief on ME!  Read what I have actually written,
Bill.  Give it a try.  I know you can do it if you put your mind to it.

You got me on that Savanarola thing, though.  I have no idea what that
is and it wasn't in my dictionary, either.

For what it's worth, I don't believe that the world is hell.  Sad that
you feel that it is.  Oh well.

And I'm a terrorist because...?  I'm a zealot because...?

> Pro-lifers are wrong when they resort to violence.

See?  We CAN agree on some things!

> And you are wrong when you paint me with the same brush as you use on them.

But I didn't.  READ, Bill, READ!  I know you can do it if you really try
hard.  Since I was not aware of, and could not possibly have cared less
about, your existence before you answered my post, it is virtually
impossible for me to have painted you with any brush at all!  (Doncha
just love logic?)

> You are also wrong when you claim a Constitutional right to abortion.

IF you will read what I wrote, you will not find anyplace where I said
abortion was a Constitutional right.  You WILL find where I said that
abortion was ruled by the Supreme Court to be legal (as you surely know
per Roe v. Wade).  The COURT may have called it Constitutional, but I
did not.  It is in clear point of fact, however, the law of the land and
has been for many years whether or not you like it or not or whether I
like it or not.
  
Point of order.  I may not approve of the fact that organized religions
get an obscene (i.e., lacking any redeeming social value) tax break
worth billions of dollars annually, but that, too, like the abortion
ruling, is the law until such time as that law may be changed.  I prefer
the freedom of choice in my country.  You choose your way, I'll choose
mine.  Isn't freedom a wonderful thing?

> There is no such thing.
> In fact, the framers of the Constitution, explaining their reasons for
> rebelling against the Government, cited what they believed to be
> fundamental
> and universal rights that justified their actions.
> First among these was the right to life.  I happen to agree with them.
> I cherish this right and I would deprive no one of it, born or unborn.

Your right to believe as you see fit.  NOT your right to impose your
religious beliefs on me or anybody else.  The framers of the
Constitution also believed in the notion of separation of church and
state... among many other concepts.  You do believe in the separation
doctrine, don't you, Bill?  And since abortion is LEGAL, would you
deprive people of the RIGHT to that LEGAL proceedure?  Is that your
concept of freedom?  Is that your concept of supporting the
well-established law of the land?  Is that your concept of listening to
the will of the people?

It's like smoking.  I don't smoke, although I used to for several
years.  (I now have no bad habits.  None at all.)  Should I burn any
tobacco fields I can find because I know that smoking kills people? 
Should I trash every store that sells legal cigarets?  Should I get a
bunch of people who don't smoke and scream in the face of anybody who
dares to light up a legal cigaret?  Should I kill or seek injury to
those who work for legal tobacco companies?  Should I bomb their
factories?

Sorry.  This zealot/terrorist/extremist/bully/cretin/windbag believes in
the rule of law.  It's an interesting concept that makes our society
civilized to whatever extent that it is.  And for what it's worth, my
s/o smokes.  I decline to buy cigarets for her, but she is an adult and
thus has the right to act as an adult and be responsible for the
consequences of her actions, whether I like her habit/actions or not. 
Because I love her, I want her to stop smoking so that she stays
healthier and lives longer.  But I can't compel her to do anything my
way even though I think my way is right.

> I also cherish the right to speak out on the issue without fear or
> intimidation from the likes of you.

Speak out as you wish.  But don't I have that very same right?  I spent
four years in the military insuring your right to speak (as well as my
own).  I have never said you couldn't or shouldn't.  Do you believe that
people seeking LEGAL abortions should have the right to do so without
fear, intimidation, or injury from the more militant right-to-lifers?

READ, Bill!  READ what is actually written before going off.  Understand
that I, too, have that same right to speak.  You have no need to fear
me... unless you try to restrict my rights and impose your questionable,
alleged moral standard on me.

Quite simple, really.

> Take your bombastic threats to alt.cretin.bully.windbag

Oh!  I am wounded, nay devistated, by your brilliant retort!  Should I
tell you to take your patroninzing pontifications to
alt.pompous.self-righteous.hypocrite?  No.  I don't think I need to.