🚀 go-pugleaf

"Mr. Precision" <Amaps.news@archeus.plus.com> wrote in message 
news:m8r342-7f2.ln1@yelm.homenetwork...

>
> You either burn fuel to create electricity to create hydrogen or you strip 
> the hydrogen from hydrocarbons.

May be mainly true now, but highly unlikely to be true in the future.
>
>> There are multiple ways being developed to get hydrogen, including direct 
>> production from solar energy breaking water down into hydrogen and oxygen 
>> with no intermediate electricity production.
>
> You still have to put the same energy in to split the bonds. Unless they 
> can do it at near 100% efficiency, generating electricity from the solar 
> energy might be more useful.

Looks like we will be able to do it with a photosynthesis related process 
where the molecules convert water to hydrogen and oxygen directly like 
plants directly convert CO2 to carbon and oxygen which they have been doing 
for a couple of billion years.

That is one potentially low cost approach that may or may not work, but many 
approaches are being developed

> If we're going to move to a hydrogen economy, high efficiency fuel cells 
> are *the* key technology and they aren't ready yet. Until then batteries 
> are the way to go.

Batteries are not good enough to solve the problems and there is not a lot 
of hope for them getting a lot better in the future if you project past 
progress as was done in the Popular Science feature article.

Hydrogen ICE is almost on the market now with almost the same efficiency as 
fuel cells.  Affordable fuel cells are no where near being available in a 
reasonable time.


> 80% charge in 45 mins if fast charging. Simply upgrading from NiMH to 
> current generation Li-Ions from someone like Thunder Sky would 
> approximately double the range of the Sunrise to around 700 miles per 
> charge. With next generation Li-S that could be around 1200 miles per 
> charge.

I doubt consumer will agree.   Your range estimates appear to be way beyond 
what is considered to be practical especially for an affordable price and in 
cold winters in most of the county.  How much would the batteries cost for 
the ranges you give.  Is it tens of millions, million, hundreds of 
thousands, or what?

>
>> Science, I think this month, the have long article on batteries and their 
>> future.   They are unaware of what you are talking about and don't see 
>> much future for battery advances.
>
> Maybe they're not looking very hard. The technologies these companies are 
> developing producing batteries with an energy density twice that of the 
> current Li-Ion or Li-poly. You'll see it first in mobile phones, and 
> laptops.
>
> http://www.sionpower.com/
> http://www.polyplus.com/

If they bring their technology to market, the main question is will the be 
cheap enough for electric cars, work in sub zero temperatures,  and have the 
discharge characteristics required for electric motor.

It looks like hydrogen ICE is going to be available many years before the 
start up company batteries in the URLs are available.