🚀 go-pugleaf

Jack May wrote:
> "Mr. Precision" <Amaps.news@archeus.plus.com> wrote in message 
> news:v62642-ia7.ln1@yelm.homenetwork...
> 
>>Nowhere near state of the art, not for 5 years anyway. This was 1997 we're 
>>talking about. Since then, mobiles and laptops have driven the cost of 
>>batteries down by orders of magnitude.
> 
> 
> The cost of a laptop computer rechargeable battery is not cheap as most lap 
> top users are well aware.   A 4 Ah dell battery in the URL below is $82.50 
> as one example.   A more extensive search would probably show similar high 
> costs which have not dropped very fast over the years.
 >
 > http://www.keybattery.com/product_info.php/products_id/4713/ad/froogle

That's a deliberate tactic by laptop (and mobile phone) manufacturers, 
they make the interface to the battery proprietary so that you have to 
come back to them to purchase new ones. You pay the same, the cells 
inside the batteries continue to drop in price and the manufacturer 
makes greater profits.

A 4000mAh laptop NiMH battery for $82.50, $7 for equivalent capacity 
from these guys:
http://www.megabatteries.com/items.asp?cat_id=25
And they're still making a good profit on the batteries.

(BTW, if you have a dud laptop battery, they contain normal cells and 
can be replaced with a soldering iron, this is true of both Li-ion and 
Ni-MH batteries)

> The whole Popular Science feature article is answering the question of why 
> has electronics advanced so fast when batteries make such small progress. 

Small progress? Over the last couple of decades batteries have been 
doubling in performance every few years. Current Lion batteries are five 
times as powerful as a lead acid battery.

Lead acid, 25 Wh/kg
NiCad, 55 Wh/kg
NiMH, 90 Wh/kg
Li-Ion, 150Wh/kg
Li-S, 350Wh/kg (PolyPlus 420Wh/kg, SION 380Wh/kg)

> What you say is so far removed from what the data says, that  your 
> credibility is not very high.
> 
> http://www.popsci.com/popsci/generaltech/article/0,20967,702771,00.html

It is a facile article, more popular than science, their argument seems 
to be that because Lithium is the lightest element we're at the end of 
the line. They have missed the point that it's surface area which 
defines the capacity of a battery.

http://www.knowledgepress.com/events/6301210.htm

>>So, basically you are completely ignorant of this car in particular, of 
>>electric vehicle products generally on the market but are voicing your 
>>opinion anyway.
> 
> 
> Apparently everyone is ignorant except you.  I am not seeing any experts 

I just keep up to date with current advances.

> that agree with you.  For example the following URL is for an organization 
> that is avidly promoting efficient technology and they don't think electric 
> cars are very good, but hold out some hope.  They see hybrids as a much 
> better solution.
> 
> http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid447.php

The Rocky Mountain Institute eh? At half a tonne, they're talking about 
lead/acid batteries and I agree, not particularly promising. I also 
agree, hybrids (and not hydrogen hybrids) are the best technology for 
now, but only because the only BEVs on the market are conversions from 
conventional vehicles and are therefore compromised by weight and 
aerodynamics. For the future though, totally different thing.

>>Do yourself a favour, go look it up, and the other products Solectria and 
>>others sell. Google has plenty of information.
> 
> 
> Solectria does not appear  to list any electric car for sale.   They show  a 
> hybrid bus and two electric vans for about  $40K used, but low mileage.

Solectria Force was another electric car with a range of 250 miles. A 
conversion from a conventional vehicle. They've sold the rights to 
concentrate on the drivetrain.

http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/rav4_ev_click_click.html

Both NiMH powered, like any battery vehicle, can be upgrade to newer 
technologies improving performance.

http://www.electrovaya.com/
http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/
http://www.acpropulsion.com/

It's interesting to note that Ovonic, the developers of the battery for 
the Sunrise and the Force, as well as the GM EV1 have been purchased by 
Texaco.

-- 
UCE probe.
Don't send mail to Amaps.news@archeus.plus.com there's nobody home.
The address captures spammer addresses and /dev/nulls all their mail.
Regards, Colin.Smith at archeus.plus.com