🚀 go-pugleaf

>>> John David Galt <jdg@diogenes.sacramento.ca.us> wrote
>>>> The "right of self determination" is a concept that applies ONLY to
>>>> individuals.

>> mike wills wrote:
>>> That is simply not true. Several Eastern European countries were founded on the
>>>  principle of national self determination-

> John David Galt <jdg@diogenes.sacramento.ca.us> wrote
>> So what?  The Nazi and Communist governments were founded on concepts that
>> we all know are total bullshit.  National or community "self determination"
>> is total bullshit, too.

mike wills wrote:
> i don't understand your reasoning here. if i understand you correctly, then
> you're saying that because the Nazi regime was founded on concepts that are total
> bullshit, therefore any regime founded on 'nationalist' principles of self-
> determination is total 'bullshit'.

My reasoning is simply to knock down your so-called reasoning.  The fact
that a nation was founded on a principle doesn't make that principle right
or even rational.

(And you're wrong about the US, it was founded on INDIVIDUAL rights; read
the Declaration of Independence.)

> whether you disagree with its consequences or not, the principle of self-
> determination for the nation does exist.

Not in any ethics I consider valid.  Morally, group entities do not exist.

> moreover, it is applied reguarally in the usa's dealings with foreign powers.
> by and large, we do not let other countries tell us what to do- we reserve that
> right for ourselves. this is a decision made by politicans and diplomats, on
> behalf of the american people i.e national self determination.

These things did happen, as a result of the very fallacy-of-composition
that you espouse.  All the tyrannical parts of our own present regime are
the results.