🚀 go-pugleaf

In <1995Jul25.104749.10594@rhrk.uni-kl.de> steiner@gypsy.physik.uni-kl.de (Guido Steiner) writes:

>24 Jul 1995

>Announcement - AcorNet PD software archive under construction
>=============================================================

>To the Acorn community!

>Have you ever thought about how nice it would be having something
>like a standard Internet-based software archive for your Acorn machine?

>A software archive which is constantly kept up to date with the newest
>releases of a wide range of vital/useful/funny PD and shareware tools...

>A software archive whose "local" server is not too far away from you, thus
>keeping download times to a minimum and preventing IINBS (Internet-Induced
>Nervous Breakdown Syndrome :) ...

>A software archive which should make it superfluous to browse a variety
>of different servers for a special program you are looking for...

><elevated style> Then you might be interested to know that there are some
>people working for this dream to come true! </elevated style>

[snip]

What's wrong with HENSA and Stuttgart, both of which are mirrored on the
Imperial College SunSite? OK, so Stuttgart sometimes has games/demos than
HENSA doesn't, but apart from that HENSA is the de facto standard
archive for Acorn machines already, and has a quite friendly web
interface. Yes, it would be nice for one site to have everything and be
ultra-friendly, but you run the risk of having three main sites rather
than two, rather than one site rather than two.

Also, it would be rather unfair to the people at Hensa, Stuttgart and
Imperial College if people attempt to start up a whole new archive,
essentially ignoring/insulting all the hard work they've put in over the
years.

Sam
--
Disclaimer: This is my opinion only, and only by coincidence.
Home page: http://grelb.src.gla.ac.uk:8000/~sam/
Home page Editor of WebSoc - http://www.gla.ac.uk/Clubs/WebSoc/
snail://UK/G12.8LG/Glasgow/12-1.Southpark.Terrace/Sam.Kington

In article <926286ki.806852586@cent.gla.ac.uk>,
    926286ki@udcf.gla.ac.uk (Sam Kington) wrote:
> In <1995Jul25.104749.10594@rhrk.uni-kl.de>
>     steiner@gypsy.physik.uni-kl.de (Guido Steiner) writes:
> >Announcement - AcorNet PD software archive under construction
> >=============================================================
> >[description of new archive services cut]
> What's wrong with HENSA and Stuttgart, both of which are mirrored on the
> Imperial College SunSite?
> [cut]

I agree with Sam here. Do the operators of this service have any reason
for thinking that Hensa, Stuttgart (and the new Australian server) are
inadequate?

Chic.
--
|Sanjay Pattni,105 Sterling Place,London W5 4RD,UK.        s.pattni@ic.ac.uk
|Tel:(+44)(0) 181 - 568 9167             http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~spattni/

In article <3vihso$mak@oban.cc.ic.ac.uk>,
          s.pattni@ic.ac.uk (Chic) wrote:

> In article <926286ki.806852586@cent.gla.ac.uk>,
>     926286ki@udcf.gla.ac.uk (Sam Kington) wrote:
> > In <1995Jul25.104749.10594@rhrk.uni-kl.de>
> >     steiner@gypsy.physik.uni-kl.de (Guido Steiner) writes:
> > >Announcement - AcorNet PD software archive under construction
> > >=============================================================
> > >[description of new archive services cut]
> > What's wrong with HENSA and Stuttgart, both of which are mirrored on the
> > Imperial College SunSite?
> > [cut]
> 
> I agree with Sam here. Do the operators of this service have any reason
> for thinking that Hensa, Stuttgart (and the new Australian server) are
> inadequate?

However (and playing the devils advocate here) is there anything wrong with
having a new archive, especially since this one is in Germany (at the moment),
and is unlikely to rival the sites used by people in the UK anyway.  Surely
we should be gald that someone is putting more presence on the net for the
Acorn market, and making it easier for Acorn users to obtain software?


-- 
Name :Ben Chalmers.               Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous.
Email:ben@bench.demon.co.uk       Do not attempt it in your home. -Good Omens
WWW  :http://uptown.turnpike.net/B/benchal/Ben.html   

In message <926286ki.806852586@cent.gla.ac.uk> Sam Kington wrote:

> What's wrong with HENSA and Stuttgart, both of which are mirrored on the
> Imperial College SunSite? OK, so Stuttgart sometimes has games/demos than
> HENSA doesn't, but apart from that HENSA is the de facto standard
> archive for Acorn machines already, and has a quite friendly web
> interface.

HENSA is only OK if, as _you_ are, in education - hence the name 'Higher
Education National Software Archive'.  There are restrictions on access
for others without a .xxx.ac.uk domain.  Add this to the fact that HENSA
has not seen anything new since about the 9th July...

Stuttgart is pretty good, but it is slow to access.  During my years at
university I tended to stay away from this one as I could download from
other sites much quicker.  Now I have a dial up line I stay away from it
because I have a phone bill to pay.

I know both of these are mirrored at src.doc.ic.ac.uk but this is only one
mirror.

What Guido was talking about is having an archive, not a site, regularly
kept up to date and mirrored on many sites.

>            Yes, it would be nice for one site to have everything and be
> ultra-friendly, ...

No, having one site would mean it would be difficult to ftp to it as there
would be a lot of users on it.  Having many sites but one archive would be
better as everything would be in said archive and you could log into your
nearest server.  This is what has made aminet, cica, etc so popular.

> ,           ... but you run the risk of having three main sites rather
> than two, rather than one site rather than two.

Hmmm, I think you need to re-read this sentence.

> Also, it would be rather unfair to the people at Hensa, Stuttgart and
> Imperial College if people attempt to start up a whole new archive,
> essentially ignoring/insulting all the hard work they've put in over the
> years.

HENSA has mirrors of aminet, cica, simtel etc on it, so do the others AFAIK.
Anyway the introduction of a new archive would, especially if it were a
good one, provide an incentive for the others to keep up, and ease the
loading on some of the servers.

> Sam

I am all in favour of 'acornet', go for it lads!

Neil
--
Neil Topham  - neil@ninthwv.demon.co.uk

In message <3vihso$mak@oban.cc.ic.ac.uk> Chic wrote:

> In article <926286ki.806852586@cent.gla.ac.uk>,
>     926286ki@udcf.gla.ac.uk (Sam Kington) wrote:
> > In <1995Jul25.104749.10594@rhrk.uni-kl.de>
> >     steiner@gypsy.physik.uni-kl.de (Guido Steiner) writes:
> > >Announcement - AcorNet PD software archive under construction
> > >=============================================================
> > >[description of new archive services cut]
> > What's wrong with HENSA and Stuttgart, both of which are mirrored on the
> > Imperial College SunSite?
> > [cut]
> 
> I agree with Sam here. Do the operators of this service have any reason
> for thinking that Hensa, Stuttgart (and the new Australian server) are
> inadequate?

Perhaps they could collaborate and provide an even more friendly interface,
and jsut mirror the existing services at their site if their worried about
access times?


-- 
Daniel R Ellis

Neil Topham (neil@ninthwv.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> HENSA is only OK if, as _you_ are, in education - hence the name 'Higher
> Education National Software Archive'.  There are restrictions on access
> for others without a .xxx.ac.uk domain.  Add this to the fact that HENSA
> has not seen anything new since about the 9th July...

> Stuttgart is pretty good, but it is slow to access.  During my years at
> university I tended to stay away from this one as I could download from
> other sites much quicker.  Now I have a dial up line I stay away from it
> because I have a phone bill to pay.

There is one solution for both problems:
src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/computing/systems/archimedes/collections/uni-stuttgart/
src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/computing/systems/archimedes/collections/hensa/

(yes, it's mentioned in the ".message" of Stuttgart's
/pub/systems/acorn/riscos :)

Bye,
Jochen

--
                      ------------------------------------
                      EMail:   jscharrl@ba-stuttgart.de
                         or:   acorn1@ftp.uni-stuttgart.de
                      ------------------------------------

In article <19950731.144454.18@ninthwv.demon.co.uk>,
Neil Topham <neil@ninthwv.demon.co.uk> wrote:
|In message <926286ki.806852586@cent.gla.ac.uk> Sam Kington wrote:
|
|> What's wrong with HENSA and Stuttgart, both of which are mirrored on the
|> Imperial College SunSite?
|
|HENSA is only OK if, as _you_ are, in education - hence the name 'Higher
|Education National Software Archive'.  There are restrictions on access
|for others without a .xxx.ac.uk domain.  Add this to the fact that HENSA
|has not seen anything new since about the 9th July...

I always use the hensa mirror at ftp.demon.co.uk, which does not suffer
from these restrictions.

Mike.
       _____________________________________________________________________
\  x  / Michael Williams                      Advanced RISC Machines Limited
|\/|\/\ michael.williams@armltd.co.uk  Fulbourn Road, Cambridge, CB1 4JN, UK
|  |.__)"I might well think that Matti, ARM Ltd. couldn't possibly comment."

The more I think about this idea, the more appealing the principle sounds.
I think the best implementation would be for the hensa and stuttgart sites
to become part of this mirroring scheme, and consequently any of their
current mirrors. The two features of this system which really sticks out
is that all the mirrors will then have a common directory hierachy which
will make it easier to reference packages. Also the maintainence of the
archive should be easier since it won't be lots of separate archives doing
their own thing and duplicating the effort.

Chic.
--
|Sanjay Pattni,105 Sterling Place,London W5 4RD,UK.        s.pattni@ic.ac.uk
|Tel:(+44)(0) 181 - 568 9167             http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~spattni/

Jochen Scharrlach writes:

>There is one solution for both problems:
>src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/computing/systems/archimedes/collections/uni-stuttgart/
>src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/computing/systems/archimedes/collections/hensa/

Yes, but it would be better if there were more solutions. This can of course
be solved by having more mirrors of Stuttgart and HENSA, but it is better
to do it in this way. It will mean less work for you, since you can share
the maintenance load with others, and duplicate work is avoided.

It also means you give up some control. That shouldn't be a problem, unless
of course the co-maintainers aren't suited to their task, so there must be
a way to remove them without making the whole co-operation system going down.

An aminet-like solution also scales better if Acorns ever become more popular,
which we all hope, of course.

A problem may be that HENSA's structure is a bit unsuitable for the purpose,
since it only works if you have a bunch of search interfaces available, and
most sites don't have that.

I would suggest the ftp.uni-stuttgart.de directory structure or something
similar as a starting point, and divide the work along directory lines,
with people specialising in different kinds of programs. But then, i have
no experience in organising things like this.

Notice that this thread is being crossposted to fido.ger.archimedes
(and maus.sys.archimedes, wherever that is). Making available the software
on the Internet to the people on the Fidonet networks in a structured way
is a laudable goal, IMHO.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . G e r b e n   V o s   <><
mailto:gerben@cs.vu.nl                           http://www.cs.vu.nl/%7Egerben/
Could Emacs create a core dump so huge that Emacs couldn't edit it?
  -- after Per Abrahamsen

Gerben Vos (gerben@cs.vu.nl) wrote:
> Yes, but it would be better if there were more solutions. This can of course
> be solved by having more mirrors of Stuttgart and HENSA, but it is better
> to do it in this way. It will mean less work for you, since you can share
> the maintenance load with others, and duplicate work is avoided.

I think the src.doc-mirror has good download rates for people who come
from outside Germany while German downloaders usually have a good
connection to Stuttgart. Hensa is another problem, however.

The maintenance load is shared anyway: I personally don't care about
uploading communication-stuff (freenet, etc.) because Demon has all
this stuff anyway - and Stuttgart has a Demon-mirror :)

> It also means you give up some control. That shouldn't be a problem, unless
> of course the co-maintainers aren't suited to their task, so there must be
> a way to remove them without making the whole co-operation system going down.

The only way would be to split it up by sections - Demon does the
communication section, another server does grfx&sound, etc.

> An aminet-like solution also scales better if Acorns ever become more popular,
> which we all hope, of course.

One way to distribute the AcorNet would be to use the AFS-structure,
which is not the fastest solution, but is easy to access and saves
much harddisc space!

> A problem may be that HENSA's structure is a bit unsuitable for the purpose,
> since it only works if you have a bunch of search interfaces available, and
> most sites don't have that.

I don't like Hensas structure. You usually only find things if you
exactly know what you are looking for. If you just want to browse
a bit through what's available e.g. in the grfx section, you'll have
to look through all available files.

> I would suggest the ftp.uni-stuttgart.de directory structure or something
> similar as a starting point, and divide the work along directory lines,
> with people specialising in different kinds of programs. But then, i have
> no experience in organising things like this.

OK, that's what I meant above, but it's still a bit clumsy. Some
things may not fit in exactly one section, so there are duplicates. On
the other hand there will always be some people who don't know where
to upload their stuff, so the maintainers will have to move around the
wrong uploaded things. 

The organization would be a difficult point - who is able to
coordinate the whole thing? Two people want to maintain the grfx
stuff - who will decide which one gets the job? One maintainer is a
complete fool - who is *able* to take him away his job? You know, the
Internet is not a democracy, it's an anarchy :)

Bye,
Jochen

--
                      ------------------------------------
                      EMail:   jscharrl@ba-stuttgart.de
                         or:   acorn1@ftp.uni-stuttgart.de
                      ------------------------------------

: I don't like Hensas structure. You usually only find things if you
: exactly know what you are looking for. If you just want to browse
: a bit through what's available e.g. in the grfx section, you'll have
: to look through all available files.

The one _really_ big advantage of the HENSA layout over the other sites
in my mind is that it's in chronological order. Unfortunately, this doesn't
entirely outweigh the apparently absurd directory structure, but then I
don;t know a thing about their system setup.

I _don't_ like the /newsoft directory in stuttgart nearly as much as the
chronological ordering of HENSA, but I do agree that HENSA works best
if you know what you're looking for in advance. Though 'grep'ing the 
index file is a damn useful way to find things - sometimes more useful
than stuttgart's directory structure.

For me with a handful of uni accounts, AcorNet offers me little use, but
I can see that other ppl could find it damned handy. I thought the
program was pretty neat under UNIX.


	Bevis Peters

	bevis@apg.ph.ucl.ac.uk
	"Gravity is a myth - the Earth sucks."