🚀 go-pugleaf

I had said:
   >It is not that way for anybody whose income taxes are withheld
   >by the employer.  That the government is taking _anything_
   >from you at all via payroll-deducted taxes is a complete
   >myth.  You can't believe everything that's printed on your
   >pay-stub.  All of your payroll-deducted taxes are paid directly
   >from your employer to the government.  There is no real sense
   >in which ANY of that money was EVER, at ANY time, "yours", so
   >you can hardly speak of its being taken from you.
In article <4b4ev6$26c@thorn.cc.usm.edu> 
brshears@whale.st.usm.edu (Harold Brashears) whines:
 :   This is untrue.  From a booking, accounting, profit and loss point of
 :   view, every employee has to return to the employer at least as much as
 :   it costs to keep them on the payroll.  

And from a purely pragmatic, mathematical, 2+2 does not equal 5 
point of view, as well.

 : It does not matter to the employer if that money is spent on taxes on 
 : a check to the  employee.  

That was precisely MY point.  ALL the cost is paid by the EmployeR, not JUST
the so-called Salary.

 : aggregate total cost of employment must be covered by
 :   the return on the employee's labor, or they will lose their job.
 :   Thus, the money is paid out of the employee's labor.

OF COURSE!  Please, you are talking to a socialist.  All of US
already KNOW that everything (or almost everything, everything that
REALLY Counts) comes out of the employee's labor.  That was NOT
the question!  The question was whether it came vs. didn't come out
of the employee's SALARY!!!!!!  Understand the DIFFERENCE!  What
most employees are promised in salary is OBVIOUSLY already WAY below
the value of their labor, because it must not only allow for associated
employer-paid costs like FICA, FUTA, and workmen's comp, it must
also allow for some PROFIT for the employer!

The point is, the worker already knows he is being exploited.
He already knows his salary is less than the value of his output,
to enable the oligarchs to take their cut.  When he finds out further
that the government is taking a cut OUT OF HIS ALREADY-LOW SALARY, as well, 
through taxes, he gets REALLY upset.  But the point is, the government's
cut is NOT COMING from the worker's salary.  Yes, it is coming from the
value of the worker's output, but you didn't hear the worker objecting
to that when it was making his boss money.  The worker agreed to his salary;
there is a sense in which he can HANDLE being exploited to the degree that
his salary is low; he just doesn't want injury added to the insult by having
to pay taxes on a salary that is exploitatively low to begin with.
In order for any worker to do anything about this, he has to begin by
seeing that taxes are NOT coming out of his salary, out of what the
government and his employer allege his salary to be.  Of COURSE, they
are coming out of the value of his output, but that is not and has
NEVER been the same thing.  Besides, the worker is enabled to produce
this output through his interaction with the machines and other
support structures (capital,management) provided by capitalists
anyway, so it's not like he wanted it all in the first place.