🚀 go-pugleaf

	A number of possible causes exist for this problem, starting with
you software and extending to both your hardware and Merit's.

	It isn't uncommon for a system to "freeze" in this manner and simply
send a message to your software that "it's busy - hold all data." A heavy
load on the system you are calling (are you calling during peak hours),
resulting in heavy cpu loads will result in that by itself. When this DOES
occur, of course, your modem will appear to "freeze up."

	If you have an external modem, the next time the problem occurs
watch the RD light and see if you receive a signal from the system just
before your software sends the contents of the keyboard buffer. If so, then
the problem is in the cpu load (or a similar problem) at the other end.

	Similarly, if you have no problem when calling bbs systems or other
services, etc. then the problem is NOT in your hardware.

	Finally, you might consider getting rid of the Kermit software you
are using and obtaining a decent communications package. The best package
available is a shareware product called TeleMate (ver. 3.10 is the current
release), which is multitasking, user friendly, and well supported. (I
assume you use a pc compatible). It DOES have Kermit protocol available if
you need it, and is available from SIMTEL (in PD1:<MSDOS.MODEM> as
TM310-1.ZIP, TM310-2.ZIP, and TM310-3.ZIP) and other sites via anonymous ftp
(if you don't have ftp available, let me know and I'll uuencode the files
and email them to you). By using a sound software package you will eliminate
one potential problem link in your system.

	Hope it helps.


-- 
    rick.adams on GEnie   /|\        You are right from your side,        
     adamsr@netcom.com  /  |  \        And I am right from mine.          
    adamsr@irie.ais.org \ /|\ /  We're both just one too many mornings,   
   adamsr@norwich.bitnet  \|/  And a thousand miles behind. (c Bob Dylan) 

In article <1992Aug27.024302.28473@zip.eecs.umich.edu> baillod@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Brad Baillod) writes:
"Which leads me to:  does anyone else get infuriated trying to access
"U of M--Ann Arbor computers over Merit from the Detroit area?  It's
"so incredibly slow and lagging sometimes it's ridiculous.  Just
"to get this advice tonight I'm making a call direct to the Merit
"connection in Ann Arbor.  This connection is fine--is there some
"sort of 1 kilobyte per second gateway between Detroit and Ann Arbor
"through which all of Merit's information must pass?
"Thanks for any advice you can give me.
"
"Brad
"

I too have some problems, only mine happen during UUCP connections to
destroyer. In the last few days, Merit chokes up after about 10 minutes
and dumps the connections.

Regarding the Detroit dial-in modems: Wayne State University is 
responsible for these. Its really sad that they've chosen to spend
a few million on a mainframe to run a dinosaur OS like MTS while
they still have 2400 baud stone-age modems. HEY WSU - WAKE UP: 2400
baud went out years ago. We need 9600/14400 V.32/V.32bis wil V.42/V.42bis
error correction/compression!! If you spent $4k for several racks of 
these, you'd be helping more people than when you spend 2 million
on a 5890. If U of M can pitch their stone-aged technology and provide
what I consider essential technology, then so can you.

In article <1992Aug28.092524.11105@tygra.Michigan.COM> jp@tygra.Michigan.COM (John Palmer) writes:
>they still have 2400 baud stone-age modems. HEY WSU - WAKE UP: 2400
>baud went out years ago. We need 9600/14400 V.32/V.32bis wil V.42/V.42bis
>error correction/compression!! If you spent $4k for several racks of 
>these, you'd be helping more people than when you spend 2 million
>on a 5890. If U of M can pitch their stone-aged technology and provide
>what I consider essential technology, then so can you.

Considering your prior behavior, John, you're hardly in a position to
be making demands of the universities.  WSU spends its money to
provide services to its students, staff, faculty, and customers.  It
just happens that they haven't bothered to turn off their Merit
dialins to non-paying folks.  It's quite possible that buying a 5890
is helping more students, staff, and faculty than buying a rack of
V.32bis modems.

Then again, if you were to donate such a group of modems, I'm sure
they wouldn't turn you down.

-- 
Marc Unangst                | Real men don't make backups.  Real men never
mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us   | accidentally delete files that they're going
                            | to need later.

jp@tygra.Michigan.COM (John Palmer) writes:
>I too have some problems, only mine happen during UUCP connections to
>destroyer. In the last few days, Merit chokes up after about 10 minutes
>and dumps the connections.

I've had a couple problems like this lately as well.  I added
%TRANSPARENT=ON to by UUCP script.  The jury's not in yet if this
helps, but it might be worth a try... 

>Regarding the Detroit dial-in modems: Wayne State University is 
>responsible for these. Its really sad that they've chosen to spend
>a few million on a mainframe to run a dinosaur OS like MTS while
>they still have 2400 baud stone-age modems. HEY WSU - WAKE UP: 2400
>baud went out years ago. We need 9600/14400 V.32/V.32bis wil V.42/V.42bis
>error correction/compression!! If you spent $4k for several racks of 
>these, you'd be helping more people than when you spend 2 million
>on a 5890. If U of M can pitch their stone-aged technology and provide
>what I consider essential technology, then so can you.

Well, you have a right to your opinion.  The Merit/MichNet lines are
being substantially used by NON-UNIVERSITY USERS, including yourself.
I work at a university, and my job is to support university users.
However, people have found that I'm also willing to put out a large effort
for "outsiders".  Others in the university organizations may not be as
willing to do this.  Merit boils down for a free-lunch for you folks.
Many of you NEVER PAY A CENT to use resources that other people
(students, primarily) are paying computing fees to support. 

Sure, modems are "cheap".  But, there are other costs that you didn't
factor in that are germane to Wayne State: some of their remote sites
use 9.6Kbps lines to get back to their network.  A single 9600bps
modem would saturate that line.  Ok, go to 56Kbps (or higher.)  Wait
'till you get the bill (and it's a monthly recurring charge, at that.)

As a counter-example to your opinion, when you have a UNIVERSITY
RESEARCHER that, as one individual, uses up a substantial amount of
the mainframe CPU, taking time away from other users that have work to
do, it's time to get a new mainframe.  You can't tell the researcher
to go away: they're legitimate users, and they're often the driving
force in computing.

On the other hand, Merit/MichNet users do deserve higher-speed modems.
But, I can tell you that based on my experience (at Oakland
University) administrative preference is to upgrade the local dial-up
banks first.  Wayne State is upgrading their local dial-up banks now.
We're adding modems, too, but there'll be more added to the local
dial-up banks than to our Merit node.  Merit is a lower priority for
the administration, because of the high amount of non-Oakland
University users, as well as the high amount of what could be termed
abusive users.

Ask the folks at Merit how many people tie up a Merit/MichNet port for
hours, and sometimes, DAYS on end doing ppp/slfp connections, mudding,
etc.  The administative types know about this behavior, and it
certainly doesn't help our case when we try to get limited funds to
upgrade the Merit dial-up ports (yes, I do advocate expanding and
increasing the speed of our Merit node's modems.)

So, unless an outside party decides to step up the ante by offering
equipment, for at least a while, the Merit/MichNet dial-ups at some
universities will remain low-speed.

Jeff
-- 
Jeff Marraccini                              jeff@vela.acs.oakland.edu <- Work
Computing Resource Administrator             jeff@nucleus.mi.org       <- Home
Oakland University                           +1 313 370-4542
Rochester, MI USA 48309-4401        "The Computer is your Friend." -- Paranoia

In article <BtpKEH.703@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us> mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst) writes:
"
"Considering your prior behavior, John, you're hardly in a position to
"be making demands of the universities.  WSU spends its money to
"provide services to its students, staff, faculty, and customers.  It
"just happens that they haven't bothered to turn off their Merit
"dialins to non-paying folks.  It's quite possible that buying a 5890
"is helping more students, staff, and faculty than buying a rack of
"V.32bis modems.

They get money from Merit (not alot) to provide certain services to
the public. I paid a HELL of a lot of single business tax last year
as well as state personal income tax, so I'm only asking for what I
paid for. 

I wasn't demanding either, just criticizing. 

What "behavior" are you talking about. We provide many services to 
the public (news feeds for a token fee only, USENET access for a 
token fee, a 6gb  archive of PD software and other files available
by anonymous UUCP, etc, and the list goes on). Is this the "behavior"
that you criticize?? Or are you one of those idiots who still beleives
the b.s. that other people say on the net.
 
I have done NOTHING to warrant your attitude. I am taking you to task,
mister. You had better explain what "behavior" you are talking about, 
otherwise we'll all know that you're just another one of those 
assholes.
 
John Palmer
(tired of getting kicked around and ready to start kicking back!)


"
"Then again, if you were to donate such a group of modems, I'm sure
"they wouldn't turn you down.
"

I have tried and they said no. I had a rack of 12 Telebit T3000's
that I (my now-defunct business) was going to donate. They said
"no thank you".

"-- 
"Marc Unangst                | Real men don't make backups.  Real men never
"mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us   | accidentally delete files that they're going
"                            | to need later.

In article <jeff.715035258@vela> jeff@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Jeff Marraccini) writes:
"jp@tygra.Michigan.COM (John Palmer) writes:
">I too have some problems, only mine happen during UUCP connections to
">destroyer. In the last few days, Merit chokes up after about 10 minutes
">and dumps the connections.
"
"I've had a couple problems like this lately as well.  I added
"%TRANSPARENT=ON to by UUCP script.  The jury's not in yet if this
"helps, but it might be worth a try... 
"

The problem seems to have cleared up. The problem was a connection
through WS16 to destroyer. 

"Well, you have a right to your opinion.  The Merit/MichNet lines are
"being substantially used by NON-UNIVERSITY USERS, including yourself.
"I work at a university, and my job is to support university users.
"However, people have found that I'm also willing to put out a large effort
"for "outsiders".  Others in the university organizations may not be as
"willing to do this.  Merit boils down for a free-lunch for you folks.
"Many of you NEVER PAY A CENT to use resources that other people
"(students, primarily) are paying computing fees to support. 
"

Free lunch? I don't really think its free. I seem to recall that several
years ago, then Governor Blanchard signed into law an act which would 
provide state funding for Merit. Part of the legislation was that, in 
return for funding from the state, Merit was to be declared a public
data network for use by the People of The State of Michigan (businesses
included). 
 
Maybe I misread it, but now I'm curious and will investigate further. If
it is in fact the case that Merit receives substantial funding from 
the state, then I think that I am justified in using the services. I just
paid a whopping sum for state single business tax and was not pleased.
If I have to pay it, I don't like being told that I cannot use a service
which I paid for. 

"Sure, modems are "cheap".  But, there are other costs that you didn't
"factor in that are germane to Wayne State: some of their remote sites
"use 9.6Kbps lines to get back to their network.  A single 9600bps
"modem would saturate that line.  Ok, go to 56Kbps (or higher.)  Wait
"'till you get the bill (and it's a monthly recurring charge, at that.)
"

A 56KB digital link costs about $400 to go from Detroit to, say 
Sterling Hts. I guess what is needed is some sort of cooperation
between industry (Michigan Bell) and the state for reduced rates 
for thinks like PDN's. 

"As a counter-example to your opinion, when you have a UNIVERSITY
"RESEARCHER that, as one individual, uses up a substantial amount of
"the mainframe CPU, taking time away from other users that have work to
"do, it's time to get a new mainframe.  You can't tell the researcher
"to go away: they're legitimate users, and they're often the driving
"force in computing.
"

Actually, moving to a workstation/file server model is the best way to 
go, but some people still need mainframe resources.

"On the other hand, Merit/MichNet users do deserve higher-speed modems.
"But, I can tell you that based on my experience (at Oakland
"University) administrative preference is to upgrade the local dial-up
"banks first.  Wayne State is upgrading their local dial-up banks now.
"We're adding modems, too, but there'll be more added to the local
"dial-up banks than to our Merit node.  Merit is a lower priority for
"the administration, because of the high amount of non-Oakland
"University users, as well as the high amount of what could be termed
"abusive users.
"

I don't beleive that WSU has any dial-in banks of their own which are 
not  on  Merit SCP's. They used to have direct lines to their MTS 
system through a Memorex box of some sort, but that went our years
ago. 

"Ask the folks at Merit how many people tie up a Merit/MichNet port for
"hours, and sometimes, DAYS on end doing ppp/slfp connections, mudding,
"etc.  The administative types know about this behavior, and it
"certainly doesn't help our case when we try to get limited funds to
"upgrade the Merit dial-up ports (yes, I do advocate expanding and
"increasing the speed of our Merit node's modems.)
"
"So, unless an outside party decides to step up the ante by offering
"equipment, for at least a while, the Merit/MichNet dial-ups at some
"universities will remain low-speed.
"

I guess what really needs to be done is to have some sort of policy
designed to determine what kind of use is allowed. That policy MUST
take into account who funds Merit and how much comes from each of 
the funding sources. Here are a few questions I have regarding Merit:

  * How much money does Merit get from the state??
 
  * How much from the member universities??
 
  * Is Merit considered a public data network?? Is there a statement
    of purpose somewhere? How much of this is encased in legislation?
 
  * How much money do member universities get from Merit to help
    support/subsidize dial-in nodes?
 
  * How fast is the link from WS13 (Sterling Hts) to Detroit?
    How many modems are hanging off that SCP?

When I was a student at WSU, I was jerked around by the C&IT for criticizing
them for not paying enough attention to university users. I was one of a 
vocal crowd who advocated (and got) change. Student workstation labs popped
up. An academic lifetime account program on the mainframe was established.
 
Now, I'm on the other side of the fence, and I see deficiencies here too. 
Funny how times (and people) change, eh?
 
Regarding WSU and equipment: I contacted their C&IT in January to see about
donating a rack of Telebit T3000 modems for use on their Merit node. They
replied with a terse "no thank you". I also offered a few T3000's for the
Warren SCP. Same response. I guess the first thing to do is to get the
member universites to actually accept equipment that people want to 
donate. 
 
"Jeff
"-- 

John