🚀 go-pugleaf

On Fri, 27 Dec 1996 07:20:14 GMT, dk@cadvision.com wrote:


>
>TELL ME in what way are we cultlike? and what mindcontrol tactics do
>we use?

It's the pressure you put on people to join.  The pressure not to
discuss it with others.  And all of the catch phrases you use in
recruitment and at rallys.  Same sort of a feeling I got when I went
to a time-share promotion 8 years ago.  Felt like I was trapped.
Couldn't get out of the place without buying (but I did manage,
finally)  Just isn't the way I like to feel, or make others feel.
Very very uncomfortable.  Hard to describe unless you've been through
it once, I guess.  It gave me a very bad taste in my mouth and taught
me a very good lesson.  That I DO NOT LIKE to be conned into any kind
of multi level marketing.  I like dealing with businesses that are on
the level from start.  No beating around the bush making you guess
what kind of a company it is.  Just the facts ma'am. :)
>ha I like the one about controling thoughts... when was the last time
>you told your boss what you thought of him? He got you controlled real
>good!!
Ummmm,  why would I have to tell my boss what I thought of her?  I
don't have a problem with her, and if I did, (as long as the problem
wasn't too severe or work related) it wouldn't say anything.  I'd mind
my own business.  
>you say "they" but Amway is nothing but a warehouse, they do not even
>hold meetings .It is us the distributers who hold meetings, and there
>are a million legs to amway
>who are"they"? 
The distributors, like yourself.  Who group together and make up
scAmway.
>I am an independant business and buy off of amway because they PAY the
>best. If walmart paid like amway I would buy at walmart>
>Can you tell me the ten forms of income of amway or the pv/bv ratio?
I have no idea.  It's not my business to know.  I AM NOT INTERESTED!!
That is my choice.  I live in Canada.  It's a FREE country.  I choose
not to be interested and Amway had a hard time understanding and
respecting that decision.  
>if you cannot answer this  than what do you know about amway?
I know that they have a few people at the very top, and lots of others
below who are driven by motivational pep talks and rallys in order for
the ones at the top to acheive even greater success.  They have an "I
don't care attitude" when it comes to badgering potential recruits.
They seem to have no self conscience at all.  
>ask your brotherinlaw this question.
He won't know.  he broke away after he was badgered and pestered by
his sponsor to recruit others so much that he finally PAID out of his
own pocket for his 2 daughters to join, just so that they would leave
him alone for awhile.  Every time he would mention that he had a great
new long distance plan or something to me, I would ask "is it amway?"
I'm not interested!!!  Finally he just quit.  To hell with the
contract (that he had at his other company with the guy who recruited
him in the beginning), it was driving him nuts.
>Does your brother in law know more than the president of general
>motors?
>GM says were ok.
Do they?  Good for them.  Have you ever heard the phrase "a good car
salesman"?  Stands to reason that GM would be into high pressure
sale's pitches  like Amway.
>I did not sever ties with my family I buy my mom and dad houses and
>cars. 
I never said you did.  You took this out of context.  I said that
cults did that as a form of mind-control.  Amway doesn't like you to
discuss joining until you've made up your mind.  That tells me that
they don't want you to have an informed choice.  "listen to the hype
we feed you on our tapes, sleep on it, and phone us in the morning to
sign up"!! 

Tell me ...Can you support your ma and pa when cpp runs out?
>I get paid residual which I can hand down to my family
>what does your boss give you?
They support themselves, I will get a pension, hopefully.  But I am
also preparing for my future financially.  Wealth isn't everything.
Any millionaire will tell you that.

>But how many millionaires did your job produce last year?
*shrug*  A few I'm sure,  I work for a major bank.  Bet their friends
don't shut the drapes when they see them walking up the driveway or
cringe because they will have to face the pressure of a sales pitch
again.  Those are important things, I think.

>>Certainly, he may have been just a bad apple - YOU SAY.  But from all
>>of the experiences I have had personally and the ones I have heard my
>>friends in Claresholm talk about, this is the norm for Amway.  The
>>reason that Amway has such a bad rap isn't because of one bad apple.
>>It's their selling and recruiting techniques which are indoctrinated
>>into them at the conferences and meetings that they attend.  They
>>demonstrate this time, and time again.  And now they have a reputation
>>for it. 
>>>I 
>
>
>so all youknow is HEARSAY  and not FACT
It was HEARSAY the first time, now I've heard it so many times that in
my mind, it is fact.  

>Friends tell fishstories
not my respected ones.

>I do not care what my reputation is I,m free
exactly my point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU ARE FINALLY GETTING IT!!!!    Amway salespeople DO NOT CARE WHAT
THEIR REPUTATIONS ARE WITH ANYONE!!!!!  The only care what the bottom
line is.... money.  Period.  You've admitted it.  Thank you.  
>The manager of the bank has "status " and hes at work
>go figure!!!
>I can bang my secritary, come to work drunk
> and thats acceptable
>but do amway to get your family free.
>could it be that your boss knows amway works and he cannot control you
>if you are free?

Non of the above makes sense to me.  If you are suggesting that you
bang your secretary and go to work drunk.... well, our conversation is
over.  I don't I need any more of your time.  You may be well
established financially, but I think you need get some morals (and
some spelling, and people skills)
>
>INTELLEGENT people get all the facts BEFORE making an INTELLIGENT
>decision!!
Yes, and intelligent people are turned off by a hard-sell at the
beginning.  Amway sells some great products, I'm not disputing that at
all.  It's the way that they are so secretive in their multi-level
recruiting methods that turns me off COMPLETELY!!!!!!!!

>< toys r us story snipped, repeated in above thread for those who are interested>

>>>why???   He was doiing YOU a favor.
>>He was a complete stranger.  He was NOT doing me a favor.  He was only
>>interested in making me a place on his pyramid so he could make more
>How can he make more?

> SEEMS you do not know amway and the pay structure?  Just like your brother in law? 
no, I don't pretend to know the pay structure.  But if you are
recruiting this heavily then it tells me that you are getting
something out of it?  NO?  Then why on EARTH do you recruit from
vancouver, lethbridge and India?  You get nothing out of it but a pat
on the back for getting someone else rich?  I think NOT!!! 

 Why do you keep coming down on my brother in law?  He was just a poor
sucker.  He isn't against amway.  He just couldn't say no.
>
>PYRAMID SCHEME ?
>what kind of pyramid  scheme.?( YOU BETTER THINK HERE YOU MIGHT JUST
>DEFINE A JOB)
no, my job is not a pyramid scheme.  I do not have to eagerly go out
and recruit new employees and make more money doing it.  That would
drive me whacko.

>>money.   He invaded our privacy and took advantage of a friendly
>>conversation and turned it into a business proposition without
>>informing my husband that he was basically being interviewed for a job
>>that he was NOT looking for.  HE WAS A STRANGER!!! 
>>>he will make money wether you get in or not.
>>Yes, he probably will, but he will miss out on the recruits thought he
>could get through us.   
>wow how many people do you know?
not a whole lot.  (does that matter?)
>I meet 2 a day for last 6 years 
I'm very proud of you.
>do your 10 really matter? 
yes, because those 10 would meet 10 more, and so on  and so on and so
on (where the exponantial growth kicks in)
>I go into india . The population of canada is in one city.
Good for you.  There's lots of poor innocent souls there to work on.
>
>If he invaded your privacy why dident you ask him to leave
I did ask him when he called.  He backed off right away.  The thing I
did not like is that he made the conversation in the store just seem
like an ordinary conversation.  Didn't mention the "business" until he
called us at home.  That was the invasion.  He had no right to get my
husband's name and use it for business purposes.  It was repulsive.
>sounds like your husband is a push over.
Only a very good Multi level marketing recruiter would notice that,
which, is exactly what that guy did. (and you did too, coincidentally)
>If your husband was good  he would have controlled the conversation
>maybee he should brush up on people skills.
well, he *was* just shopping.  Didn't think he would run into a
multi-level marketing maniac at Toys R Us.  But he's going to keep a
close lookout from now on.  I've given him the "don't talk to
strangers" talk already. ;)

>>>he offered a pearl to a pig.
>>I resent this analogy.  But it's typical of Amway salespeople to put
>>down others whom they feel are "below" them.  Part of the reason they
>>have that "bad rap" I was refering to earlier.
you failed to answer this one.  I'm saddened that you did.

>why  you will be dependant upon the rich after cpp fall 2007 or so 
(are you saying that that makes me a pig? Again Dave, people skills
class would really help)
>
>you have the best business opertunity{ sestina, stanford research,
>harvard university} and the only way to get free
>and you said no
>your loss
>Is it such a sin to ask ? ARE YOU OPEN MINDED ABOUT BUSINESS
no, it is not.  I do consider it offensive that he weaseled his way
out of my husband's name, and then had the audacity to look us up in
the phone book to ask us.  It was SNEAKY!!!!  And unsolicited.

>You will never know what you said no to.
>the 20 min could change your lifeas unless you are are an auther you
>have no hope of residual income.
I might not have said no, if I hadn't got that bitter taste in my
mouth over the method it was shoved in my face.  I hate sneaks.
That's the part that turned me away in the beginning, Dave.
(but I'm still not interested, so please do not call me!! Anybody!)

>SHOW ME A BETTER WAY!!!!!
How 'bout good ol' fashioned hard work?? And Savings???  
>

>well your no multi millionaire or you would know more about business
>and i dougt you will have 5 million in the bank come the year 2020
>so I can pretty much say you fit thr 95% of canadians who retire
>broke.
>Check stat can.
big deal.  I'd love to have more money (who wouldn't?  Even Oprah
would and she has more than *YOU*).  But at the expense of friends and
family and a job I couldn't live with myself for having...., I'll stay
on this path.  I'm living quite comfortably anyhow.  No regrets.  I
don't plan on being broke at retirement.
>
>Know it does not make me better just that i might know a bit more
>about whats really goiing on
>I do not like him (jean) BUT i can learn from him. I cannot change
>things. Persolally I like gst so does ralph and so does jean and i
>hope they up it to 15%
> you poor fools who dont know the system!!!!
yes, poor, poor us. :(  And we are so easily influenced by Amway
salespeople with the hard-sell recruitment tactics who show us the
way.


>why was he sleazy? was he flashing
sleazy in his methods of gaining personal information while posing as
just an ordinary friendly guy.
>you stopped to talk 
no, my husband did.  They were watching the kids play on the ride-'em
cars.  Both were standing in the same aisle.  The guy didn't make his
sales pitch there.  He phone us later after looking up our number in
the book.  Which was why he introduced himself to my husband using his
first and last name.  So my hubby would do the same. That's SLEAZY no
matter what you say.
>no thankyou was all you have to say
we didn't get that opportunity.  The wheels were turning in his head
the whole time he was talking to my husband.  He should have had the
courtesy to ask my husband if he would mind being contacted at home
about a business proposition.  No such tact. 
>
> I see hookers on the street now thats sleazy but a guy talking
>business in a store . come on lady!
>good thing hes not on welfare!!
He didn't talk business in the store.  I would have found that a
little tact-less too, mind you.  Talking business to a complete
stranger you don't know from Adam is an invasion of their time and
privacy.  He should have been straight-forth from the beginning if he
was interviewing my husband as a potential recruit.

>>I wrote:
>>>>Everything in Amway seems weird to me.  It's all too hush-hush.  I
>>>>don't do business with people who have something to hide, and AMWAY
>>>>gives me this feeling.  Right from the way they ask you to "attend a
>>>>business meeting" but refuse to come out and say what it is in the
>>>>beginning.  
>change is strange and iff you dont chage your dead!
what kind of a reply is that???  *puzzled look*


>tell me how do i make money off my downline?
>again what are the 10 ways to get paid at amway .? that is the answer
I don't know, I don't care.  That's what you and your business
associates don't get.  I DON'T GIVE A DAMN!!!
>

>I have a group in vancouver I see every 2 weeks to help them.
>FIGURE IT OUT     a plane ticket to van every 2 weeks
>did I charge my recruits ?I have a group in lethbridge
>do I charge them for my hotel ?
>This and more + my time comes out of MY pocket not anyone elses
>Who pays for my trip to india. It will cost me 15000to go. How long
>before that leg shows a profit?
>I dont have time to waste on morons
And you make no money whatsoever on the sales that these new recruits
make?  Nothing.  Zip, zero, nada????   Then why in the heck do you do
it??  Come on.  You aren't that nice of a guy.  Tell us the little
secret that only the BEST amway salespeople know..., come on :)  And
don't call names.  It's unprofessional.

>as for other distributers they might ask you 
ask me what?


>well you jumped us amway guys calling us a cult
i never called you a cult.  I said that you had cult-like recruitment
and motivational tactics.  

>made general assumptions and rude generalizations yourself.
true, I did generalize.  But when I've heard SOOOO many stories that
are all the same, it's hard not to.

>you have never been to a rally so how can you judge?
by the things I hear about your recruitment tactics.  That's the part
I'm judging.  
>
>if you banked as much money in the next five years as you did the last
>5 years wher will you be?
I don't know.  It doesn't matter anyhow, I'm young, able and working.
Material things are not a priority in my life.  I will have enough to
be comfortable and will have enjoyed my life and made my OWN choices
when it comes to finances.  And it's non of your business.  (that's
another cult tactic..., sticking your nose in other people's personal
business)
>
>AND WHAT ABOUT YOUR KIDS FUTURE
it's being taken care of.  :)  Thanks for worrying.
>
>
>i thought about my high horse
>hey WE ARE the JONES
>imagine by the year 2000 we will spliit20 billion dollars
>life is sweet.
and split it probably will be..., right in half.  Because your wife
will probably be so sick of hearing about Amway and "the plan" she
will leave with the other half.  
>
>
>>ps.  Oh, and Dave... maybe make use of your spell check before sending
>>your posts.  Some of your mistakes are pretty glaring and repeated so
>>often that they really make you look alot lower on the totem pole (or
>>is it pyramid?) than you really are.
>
>ah inever could spell so i sponsered a teacher
>but he to busy getting people free
>
>I have grade 12  no status and no job 
>
>free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

Sad part is, you probably even fake the poor spelling just so you suck
in the  the lower class, down and out  folks with hardly any education
who will notice it and think "hey, he's this rich and is just like
me.... I can do it to!!!" and Whammo!  Another recruit!  Who recruits
ten more, and ten more and so on and so on and so on........ (Ever
feel like the energizer battery bunny?)

Tracey
Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee     to be me :)