🚀 go-pugleaf

I bought a rainsoft system.  Yeah...he sold me after he did the hard water
test...and half the cup was "sediment".  So, we got a bunch of stuff free,
um...so called.  And still have a bunch of it after 3 years.  The system is
good...but, I feel we could have done the same with a less expensive system.
Normally I shop around, but this time I didn't.  I didn't want to drink
another cup of water, that I had for about 4 months prior...without dying,
until I had the system installed.

So, it's an investment...and expensive.  And just another choice among the
many to decide on.




"ION" <ionate@NO_SPAM_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:iaef7.36680$NK1.2382531@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> I'm afraid to ask this, but i live in austin and I too bought into a
rainsoft
> deal that I'm now second guessing bc of the price.
>
> I already knew I needed one because of our extremely hard water (could
feel it
> in my hair, etc), but I was looking at the Kinetico's at first.
>
> See what you think:
> We're getting the Amazon-Q system (computerized version), what they said
was 8
> yrs of soap, plus an RO unit, 350lbs of salt, two extra water spouts on
each
> side of the house that bypassing the softener plus an extra connection
beside
> the sink for the RO unit.  All of this installed for $5500.
>
> After reading these newsgroups AFTERWARDS, it looks like I was screwed.
But
> maybe that's on par for Rainsoft???  They have to dig quite a bit and go
under
> two sidewalks... if that makes a difference.
>
> Any probs with these?  Comparison to the Kinetico's??
>
> What about this Cancellation Guarentee ... isthat worth what they say??
>
> THX!
>
> ionate@hotmail.com
>

I once sold systems like that; we'd take a cup of your regular tap
water and mix in this green solution that dyed and fixated to all the
colorless algae and stuff that is normally in your water.
It would make you cup look like pea soup.
It was effective, but silly.  The algae was dead, chlorinated and
killed at the public water plant.  <s>

Sort of like the old trick with Kirby Vacuum cleaners; put a black cloth
on the intake and vacuum a customer's bed.
There would be tons of dead skin and the cloth would turn sickly white.
Then we show them giant blowup pictures of bed lice and nits.

Another great selling/scare tool.

F/S real life adventures selling door to door  $1.00 @.

mapi

"John Baker" <pilly@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:3b7d858b_1@newsa.ev1.net...
| I bought a rainsoft system.  Yeah...he sold me after he did the hard water
| test...and half the cup was "sediment".  So, we got a bunch of stuff free,
| um...so called.  And still have a bunch of it after 3 years.  The system is
| good...but, I feel we could have done the same with a less expensive system.
| Normally I shop around, but this time I didn't.  I didn't want to drink
| another cup of water, that I had for about 4 months prior...without dying,
| until I had the system installed.
|
| So, it's an investment...and expensive.  And just another choice among the
| many to decide on.
|
|
|
|
| "ION" <ionate@NO_SPAM_hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:iaef7.36680$NK1.2382531@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
| > I'm afraid to ask this, but i live in austin and I too bought into a
| rainsoft
| > deal that I'm now second guessing bc of the price.
| >
| > I already knew I needed one because of our extremely hard water (could
| feel it
| > in my hair, etc), but I was looking at the Kinetico's at first.
| >
| > See what you think:
| > We're getting the Amazon-Q system (computerized version), what they said
| was 8
| > yrs of soap, plus an RO unit, 350lbs of salt, two extra water spouts on
| each
| > side of the house that bypassing the softener plus an extra connection
| beside
| > the sink for the RO unit.  All of this installed for $5500.
| >
| > After reading these newsgroups AFTERWARDS, it looks like I was screwed.
| But
| > maybe that's on par for Rainsoft???  They have to dig quite a bit and go
| under
| > two sidewalks... if that makes a difference.
| >
| > Any probs with these?  Comparison to the Kinetico's??
| >
| > What about this Cancellation Guarentee ... isthat worth what they say??
| >
| > THX!
| >
| > ionate@hotmail.com
| >
|
|

Austin? Hard water?

Are you sure you're not on your own well?

If you're on Austin city water, then you really don't need a water softener. You
might want a water treatment system that pulls calcium carbonate from the water to
spare your water pipes, but frankly you're better off just replumbing every 30
years or so.

ION wrote:

> I'm afraid to ask this, but i live in austin and I too bought into a rainsoft
> deal that I'm now second guessing bc of the price.
>
> I already knew I needed one because of our extremely hard water (could feel it
> in my hair, etc), but I was looking at the Kinetico's at first.
>
> See what you think:
> We're getting the Amazon-Q system (computerized version), what they said was 8
> yrs of soap, plus an RO unit, 350lbs of salt, two extra water spouts on each
> side of the house that bypassing the softener plus an extra connection beside
> the sink for the RO unit.  All of this installed for $5500.
>
> After reading these newsgroups AFTERWARDS, it looks like I was screwed.  But
> maybe that's on par for Rainsoft???  They have to dig quite a bit and go under
> two sidewalks... if that makes a difference.
>
> Any probs with these?  Comparison to the Kinetico's??
>
> What about this Cancellation Guarentee ... isthat worth what they say??
>
> THX!
>
> ionate@hotmail.com

"ION" <ionate@NO_SPAM_hotmail.com> wrote
> I'm afraid to ask this, but i live in austin and I too bought into a
rainsoft
> deal that I'm now second guessing bc of the price.
>
> I already knew I needed one because of our extremely hard water (could
feel it
> in my hair, etc), but I was looking at the Kinetico's at first.
>
> See what you think:
> We're getting the Amazon-Q system (computerized version), what they
said was 8
> yrs of soap, plus an RO unit, 350lbs of salt, two extra water spouts
on each
> side of the house that bypassing the softener plus an extra connection
beside
> the sink for the RO unit.  All of this installed for $5500.
>
> After reading these newsgroups AFTERWARDS, it looks like I was
screwed.  But
> maybe that's on par for Rainsoft???  They have to dig quite a bit and
go under
> two sidewalks... if that makes a difference.
>
> Any probs with these?  Comparison to the Kinetico's??
>
> What about this Cancellation Guarentee ... isthat worth what they
say??
>
> THX!

The cancellation notice is good for three business days (72 hrs) from
the date you signed the agreement and to use it you must do it in
writing. Fill it out and get it hand canceled at the post office. I'd
also call them (now) and tell them and cancel any scheduled
installation. Your installation would be fairly pricey but different
equipment would reduce the total price substantially, my guess is by
about $3000+/-.

Gary
Quality Water Associates


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ION wrote:
> 
> I'm afraid to ask this, but i live in austin and I too bought into a rainsoft
> deal that I'm now second guessing bc of the price.
> 
> I already knew I needed one because of our extremely hard water (could feel it
> in my hair, etc), but I was looking at the Kinetico's at first.
> 
> See what you think:
> We're getting the Amazon-Q system (computerized version), what they said was 8
> yrs of soap, plus an RO unit, 350lbs of salt, two extra water spouts on each
> side of the house that bypassing the softener plus an extra connection beside
> the sink for the RO unit.  All of this installed for $5500.
> 
> After reading these newsgroups AFTERWARDS, it looks like I was screwed.  But
> maybe that's on par for Rainsoft???  They have to dig quite a bit and go under
> two sidewalks... if that makes a difference.

In Austin, you don't dig; you blast <g>.  But I don't understand what
all that excavation is for.  Your house is built on a concrete slab with
no basement, right?  How much of the plumbing is under the slab and how
much is in the attic?

I have a Sear's water softener that I bought for about $430 dollars and
installed it myself. It does a good job on water that's about as hard as
yours.  I upgraded the cold water pipes from 1/2" to 3/4" while I was at
it.  One of these days I'll upgrade the hot pipes up to the point where
there's a long run to the kitchen and washing machine.  This was all
exposed plumbing in the unfinished half of the basement.  You probably
don't have that option.

A really simplistic installation would be to only soften the hot water
supply line, and then turn down your water heater so you don't mix as
much cold water when you shower.  You could get by with a lot smaller
softener that way, and would not have to do *any* digging.  Just a
thought.

Best regards,
Bob

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:22:54 GMT, ionate@NO_SPAM_hotmail.com (ION)
wrote:

I went with an outfit on the net and got a pretty good price on a
Fleck headed softener.  I think you pay more but get better support
sometimes.  I had to install my system myself.  That include the stuff
that goes in the softener.  It came in a separate 80lb bag.  My Dad
and I spent a lot of time doing it.

For me it was worth it and cost about $1000.  It was only worth it
because my Dad is handy and taught me proper way to plumb (solder) and
helped me significantly.  Without that ...  I didn't have any issues
like you have with the sidewalk.  I am now wondering if Kinetico (or
Rainsoft) would not have been better.  I think they wanted 2-3000 for
my house.  Something like 3500 with RO.  

If you are getting all the extra stuff (I.e. Salt) you might come out
pretty decent.  With mine, I am on my own.  I am guessing you paid
about $1500 for the extra installation effort.  I am not sure you
could of done much better unless you went non-rainsoft or did it
yourself.

A lot of people wonder if Rainsoft or Kinetico are any better.  Good
luck determining this one.  I think most will agree they are at least
very good systems.  If you go with Joe Blow the local who know, you
takes more of a chance.  At least you know you didn't completely waste
$3000 on a worthless system from a local guy ...

"Paul McHale" <pmchale@doubleesolutions.com> wrote
> ionate@NO_SPAM_hotmail.com (ION) wrote:
>
> I went with an outfit on the net and got a pretty good price on a
> Fleck headed softener.  I think you pay more but get better support
> sometimes.  I had to install my system myself.  That include the stuff
> that goes in the softener.  It came in a separate 80lb bag.  My Dad
> and I spent a lot of time doing it.
>
> For me it was worth it and cost about $1000.  It was only worth it
> because my Dad is handy and taught me proper way to plumb (solder) and
> helped me significantly.  Without that ...  I didn't have any issues
> like you have with the sidewalk.  I am now wondering if Kinetico (or
> Rainsoft) would not have been better.  I think they wanted 2-3000 for
> my house.  Something like 3500 with RO.
>
> If you are getting all the extra stuff (I.e. Salt) you might come out
> pretty decent.  With mine, I am on my own.  I am guessing you paid
> about $1500 for the extra installation effort.  I am not sure you
> could of done much better unless you went non-rainsoft or did it
> yourself.
>
> A lot of people wonder if Rainsoft or Kinetico are any better.  Good
> luck determining this one.  I think most will agree they are at least
> very good systems.  If you go with Joe Blow the local who know, you
> takes more of a chance.  At least you know you didn't completely waste
> $3000 on a worthless system from a local guy ...

Regardless of the brand, all are "local" unless you buy off the 'net as
you did..... Salt and soap packs are the least expensive items he is
getting. Salt goes for =< $6� for an 80# bag. I would pay <= $150 plus
freight for the soap pack. The most expensive is the equipment and trust
this "local Joe Blow", the quality isn't worth a 1/4 of the price; even
when they reduce it (the whole deal) by $2000 with that phone call to
the sales manager when the prospect refuses to "just sign here" for
$5500. How do I know what I'm talking about? I was trained in that type
selling and I sell and service softeners, filters etc. as an independent
dealer. And 99% of those I service are those that others have sold. A
number of the one in question. Why don't I service those I've sold? I
sell Fleck Controls based equipment, plus I know what I'm doing and
refuse to sell what's 'wanted' rather than what's 'needed'. People buy
from me rather than me 'selling them'. My reputation is important to me,
critical actually. The small dealership can't afford a bad reputation.
Larger salesperson type dealerships work on numbers. Have so many
salespersons, each sees so many prospects per day and sell so many
units, that's all that matters. When they run their reputation into the
ground, they sell out if possible, move the operation somewhere else, or
rely on newbies getting their first home or moving into the area. You're
simply wrong about most of the 'local' guy small dealerships. Now had
you mentioned the local plumbers doing water treatment as a sideline....

Gary
Quality Water Associates


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In austin.forsale ION <ionate@no_spam_hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm afraid to ask this, but i live in austin and I too bought into a rainsoft 
> deal that I'm now second guessing bc of the price.   

FYI, I live in Round Rock, where both hard water and chlorine are a big
problem.  I went with Choice Water Conditioning and got a good softener AND 
whole-house carbon filter for under $2k.  it has worked great for the
year I've had it and they bring me salt when I run out :)

$5500 is so overkill it's amazing when all you're trying to do is soften
your water.  Not unlike the yahoo salesmen who try to sell you a $2000
vacuum cleaner...

-- 
Jason

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 14:43:19 GMT, "Gary Slusser" <qwasluss@ptd.net>
wrote:

>> from me rather than me 'selling them'. My reputation 
>> is important to me, critical actually. The small 
>> dealership can't afford a bad reputation.

Gary,

I first want to say I meant no offense to you.  My apologies if it
were taken that way.  It has been my experience that finding a good
independent contractor is like finding a good mechanic.  Difficult at
best.

I am sure you are very good.  You certainly spend a generous amount of
time helping people here with little, if any, benefit to yourself.
That generosity is what makes this newsgroup so amazing.

I wish you operated in the Dayton, Ohio area.  I can assure you, you
are not representative of the average independent contractor here.  

I willingly concede that big name companies are more pressure than
content.  It is quite concerning.  How to tell fact from hype is
incredibly difficult.  I was faced with spending $700 for name brand
RO or potentially wasting $200 for internet RO.

Interestingly, I am considering Kinetico for RO because my internet
purchased RO has a "rubber" taste.  I think it comes from the storage
tank.  A friend has a Culligan RO system that has the same taste.
Cold water taste dramatically better than warm water.  I don't believe
it is a product of the RO process as commercial units don't have this.

Culligan probably buys very similar components to what I bought and
OEMs as their own.  Do you have any insight here?  Any ideas for
improving taste?  I have a 5 stage.  The fifth stage is the polishing
filter.  Have tried it with and without.  Any ideas welcome...

Again, thanks for the help and sorry for the comments,

Paul

"Paul McHale" <pmchale@doubleesolutions.com> wrote
> "Gary Slusser" <qwasluss@ptd.net> wrote:
>
> >> from me rather than me 'selling them'. My reputation
> >> is important to me, critical actually. The small
> >> dealership can't afford a bad reputation.
>
> Gary,
>
> I first want to say I meant no offense to you.  My apologies if it
> were taken that way.  It has been my experience that finding a good
> independent contractor is like finding a good mechanic.  Difficult at
> best.

Good things are usually hard to find but to say they don't exist....
I'll bet there is some guy somewhere close to you that has been doing
water treatment for many years. Especially with the other two names you
mentioned being represented there.

> I am sure you are very good.  You certainly spend a generous amount of
> time helping people here with little, if any, benefit to yourself.
> That generosity is what makes this newsgroup so amazing.
>
> I wish you operated in the Dayton, Ohio area.  I can assure you, you
> are not representative of the average independent contractor here.

Yes I'm sure, but in that area there are many dealers, more than in my
area actually. With the yellow pages you could count most of them but
still miss one or two down an alley or in their garage somewhere.

> I willingly concede that big name companies are more pressure than
> content.  It is quite concerning.  How to tell fact from hype is
> incredibly difficult.  I was faced with spending $700 for name brand
> RO or potentially wasting $200 for internet RO.

When it comes to separating fact from hype, water treatment is no
different than most products or services. It comes down to the
individual's abilities. The $700 is a bit high and the $200 is too low
but RO does come with varying quality.

> Interestingly, I am considering Kinetico for RO because my internet
> purchased RO has a "rubber" taste.  I think it comes from the storage
> tank.  A friend has a Culligan RO system that has the same taste.
> Cold water taste dramatically better than warm water.  I don't believe
> it is a product of the RO process as commercial units don't have this.

That may not be a good idea when the cost of replacement 'parts' is
looked at. I like the Microline line of RO, sold my many independent
dealers.

> Culligan probably buys very similar components to what I bought and
> OEMs as their own.  Do you have any insight here?  Any ideas for
> improving taste?  I have a 5 stage.  The fifth stage is the polishing
> filter.  Have tried it with and without.  Any ideas welcome...

Most of their stuff is made by them, or to their specks, that same with
most national and some regional brands. Disconnect the tank fill line
and collect some water in a glass and taste it. If you think it tastes
of rubber it's probably in your mind. If not, I'd say it is the tank.
Drain it a few times and give it another try. If no improvement, get a
new tank.

> Again, thanks for the help and sorry for the comments,

Ok.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

> Paul


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According to Mapi <nospam@this.address.com>:
> Sort of like the old trick with Kirby Vacuum cleaners; put a black cloth
> on the intake and vacuum a customer's bed.
> There would be tons of dead skin and the cloth would turn sickly white.
> Then we show them giant blowup pictures of bed lice and nits.
 
> Another great selling/scare tool.

I saw someone get revenge against that - many years ago, I was visiting
a friend of mine, and her mother wanted me to sit through a Kirby
presentation (on the basis of taking pity on someone who _claimed_ to be
just practising...).

Just as he got to the pitch about "have you anything you want to see
if this thing can pick up?", her father got home, and offered the salesman
a round object around 10" long to "try".

Just as the salesman was about to try and suck it up, he asked "oh by the
way, what is it?".  "A stick of dynamite" her father replied.

The salesman left abruptly.
-- 
Chris Lewis,
For more information on spam, see http://spam.abuse.net/spam

It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

XMetroMan wrote:
> If you buy anything from a home salesman, you have the right to cancel
> within 3 days of purchase.

Note that this varies from state-to-state in the US.
--

Bill Seurer     Work: seurer AT us.ibm.com      Home: Bill AT seurer.net
http://www.seurer.net/             (replace " AT " with "@" to email me)

"Bill Seurer" <Bill@seurer.net> wrote
> XMetroMan wrote:
> > If you buy anything from a home salesman, you have the right to
cancel
> > within 3 days of purchase.
>
> Note that this varies from state-to-state in the US.
> --
>
> Bill Seurer     Work: seurer AT us.ibm.com      Home: Bill AT
seurer.net
> http://www.seurer.net/             (replace " AT " with "@" to email
me)

Bill, I thought it was a Federal law. Three business days, not including
holidays or weekends. The right of rescission, FTC I think.

Gary
Quality Water Associates


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