🚀 go-pugleaf

Our current house came with, what I'm sure was a builder supplied, base
G.E. model that doesn't do a good job at all on the items on upper rack.
In our previous townhouse we bought a Sears Kenmore (whirpool made) that
we were quite happy with. We especially liked that you could hang the
cutlery basket and the knife basket on the door, freeing up the entire
bottom rack for plates and dishes. Also one of the plate dividers along
the bottom could be folded down to make room for bowls etc. when needed.
On the top rack you could flip down a rack along the sides that would
give a second level if you had a lot short cups or containers. We did
use not that very often, but it actually worked well in supporting the
stems of wine glasses. 


Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
> 
> We are going to be replacing our under-counter dishwasher soon (it _really_
> needs replacing!!!)
> 
> The thing about dishwashers is that there are so many different options, and
> configurations, that trying to choose one based on things like C.R. rankings
> doesn't really give you the full picture.  A machine may be made by a
> manufacturer with a sterling reputation, and garner great reviews, but once
> used by regular people, in day-to-day service, it becomes clear that the
> cutlery basket is in a bad place, it isn't really that quiet, the "power jets"
> blast all but the heaviest dishes off the racks, or that the racks themselves
> are just configured in a stupid fashion.
> 
> So, if there is something about your dishwasher which you really appreciate,
> would you please share with us what it is (and what make and model dishwasher
> you have?)   Also, for the folks reading this who are in the Bay area - if you
> recall where you got your dishwasher (and if you were pleased with the
> service), please let us know that as well.  We'd rather give our business to
> someplace which deserves a referral, rather than some random place which we
> pick from the phone book!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
>              I am:  mom, attorney, professor, advocate for fathers
>                           http://www.parentinglaw.com
>                 Actually, I'm a lawyer -and- I play one on tv.

-- 

      Jeff Cohen   
      itv,  Instructional Television, 625 Southam Hall 
Carleton University,  Ottawa, Ont, Canada,  K1S 5B6
   tel: (613) 520-2600 ext. 8105     fax: (613) 520-4368

Hi:

I bought a GE Monogram Dishwasher in 1998 and consider it to be one of
the best purchases I ever made. It was more expensive than others, about
$900, including an extra $100 for a 5-year GE warranty. But considering
the great features, some of which I listed below, I think the higher
price definitely was worth it. And when helping friends and family stack
their dishwashers I realize just how user friendly - and extremely quiet
- mine is.

*Stainless steel interior, to avoid the odors or stains that can occur
with plastic-inside machines.
*Delayed start option to take advantage of off-peak power prices.
*Removable cutlery basket that stays fixed inside the machine, i.e.,
doesn't "float around" when replaced in bottom rack.
*Removable filter so any food particles can easily be removed from
inside machine.
*Cleaning power so strong I never rinse off gooey or gunked-on food and
dishes come out amazingly clean.
*Light that goes on to let you know when to add more drying aid.
*Adjustable top rack feature to accomodate stemware.
*Interchangable bottom racks to accomodate more dishes or pots and pans.
*Uses less water than other machines.
*Have never experienced problems with light items, such as Rubbermaid
foodstorage containers "thrown" around, even when placed in bottom rack.
*Extra insulation to reduce noise.
*GE very responsive to questions on service since this is their
top-of-the-line dishwasher.
*Easy-to-use timer and selection buttons.

I got the stainless steel front, but it's also available in black or
white. Can also take custom cabinet cover but that costs more.

Bought it at Karl's Appliances, which has stores in N.J., where I live.
But this is a national line, so you can find it anywhere.

I absolutely think this machine is well worth the extra cost.

Good luck,

KS


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Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. mentioned:
> We are going to be replacing our under-counter dishwasher
> soon (it _really_ needs replacing!!!)

Recommend you visit University Electric in Santa Clara (1500 Martin Avenue,
+1-408-496-0500).  They have a website, too -- but I can't find the sucker
now -- listing hours of business, a locator, and product info...

We've purchased all our major electrical appliances from this business for
the last 10 years and have never been disappointed in the service, cost of
items, or installation (when necessary).  The staff are NOT on commission
and are truly professional when offering their opinions.  The other nice
thing: they LISTEN to what your needs are and show you comparable items on
their floor.  There are SEVERAL models, vendors, etc. to choose from and the
prices range accordingly.

We recently purchased the GE Profile dishwasher from them (visit
http://www.ge.com/appliances/usa/profile/pdsh.htm for more info) and it's
great.

The Ranger

In article <7j85gv$sad$1@news.bayarea.net>,
Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. <lawyerNOSPAM@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>We are going to be replacing our under-counter dishwasher soon (it
>_really_ needs replacing!!!)

We replaced ours 1.5 years ago when it started leaking.   We got a
Kenmore (Sears) that we're pretty happy with.  Good points: food
grinder, extra big silverware rack down the right side (removable), water
temp boost, tilted top rack (fits tall items on both top and bottom
rack), NO CENTRAL SPIKE.  Bad point: had to get digital controls.

The only things it can't clean are eggs on metal or plastic, plus
baked-on gunk.

We were reasonably happy with service from Sears.

>The thing about dishwashers is that there are so many different        
>options, and configurations, that trying to choose one based on things 
>like C.R. rankings doesn't really give you the full picture.           

Not only that, but the models are almost never available anywhere.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (@netcom.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6       <*>      http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het

"Why do you like my boyfriend to tie you up and beat me.?"
    -- ELIZA generates a poly moment

lawyerNOSPAM@netcom.com (Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.) writes:

>So, if there is something about your dishwasher which you really appreciate, 
>would you please share with us what it is (and what make and model dishwasher 
>you have?)

I appreciate that he's a real redhead. Oh, Irish-American, 1949 model.
 
>Also, for the folks reading this who are in the Bay area - if you 
>recall where you got your dishwasher...

Off the net.

Lenore "sorry, can't resist a good straight line" Levine

-- 
"A big, bad boar is just that; he rules the roost." -- Boomer

We *LOVE* our Maytag!!! No pre-wash, no scraping except the big chunks,
and it all comes out clean. We have a DWU9202 Quiet Plus right now and a
14 year old son that is in charge of the dishes. Believe me, the 14 year
old does NO extra work if is not life threatening, and our dishes still
come out clean. From the food grinder and screen cleaning system, to the
heat boost for the water temp, to whatever else they include, I am sold
on these dishwashers. They are not the most expensive on the market (we
paid $450), and are not stainless (at least not this model), but I think
they do a great job.
FNO Toolman
--
FREE Online Help & Advice Covering A Wide Variety Of Subjects
           PLUS Loads Of Great Family Fun! Check Us Out...
                                  www.familynews.org
            Your Connection To North American Family Life
Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote in message
<7j85gv$sad$1@news.bayarea.net>...
>We are going to be replacing our under-counter dishwasher soon (it
_really_
>needs replacing!!!)
>
>The thing about dishwashers is that there are so many different
options, and
>configurations, that trying to choose one based on things like C.R.
rankings
>doesn't really give you the full picture.  A machine may be made by a
>manufacturer with a sterling reputation, and garner great reviews, but
once
>used by regular people, in day-to-day service, it becomes clear that
the
>cutlery basket is in a bad place, it isn't really that quiet, the
"power jets"
>blast all but the heaviest dishes off the racks, or that the racks
themselves
>are just configured in a stupid fashion.
>
>So, if there is something about your dishwasher which you really
appreciate,
>would you please share with us what it is (and what make and model
dishwasher
>you have?)   Also, for the folks reading this who are in the Bay area -
if you
>recall where you got your dishwasher (and if you were pleased with the
>service), please let us know that as well.  We'd rather give our
business to
>someplace which deserves a referral, rather than some random place
which we
>pick from the phone book!
>
>Thanks!
>
>             I am:  mom, attorney, professor, advocate for fathers
>                          http://www.parentinglaw.com
>                Actually, I'm a lawyer -and- I play one on tv.

I've had a Sears for about three months now.  Middle-of-the-line 
unit.  What I love: IT ISN"T A GE!

My GE Potscrubber 1120 died after 4.5 years - the famous fan 
problem necessitating replacing the whole motor/pump assembly.  No 
way.  Other than the financial hit, it was a pleasure to get rid 
of this atrocity, whose poor performance was exceeded only by the 
ergonomically hostile misdesign.  Details if needed.  What a 
remarkably poor consumer product.  I'll never buy another GE 
appliance.

I had owned a portable Sears unit in the mid 80's, and thought it 
was a spectacularly good performer.  I didn't want to spend the 
huge bucks on something like a Bosch.   Thus it seemed reasonable 
to buy Sears again.  I wanted something without the center tower, 
as I (perhaps naively) think a center spray arm is a better 
design.  It seemed easy to install, aside from some personal 
difficulty bending and routing the copper piping water supply that 
needed to be replaced due to crimping over the years.  It is 
unusually quiet, especially when filling and seems to clean things 
acceptably well.  Only rarely does something not come out clean; I 
usually don't use the water-heat options to keep utility costs 
down, so perhaps that's to blame.  It happens so infrequently that 
it isn't worth my worry.   What I don't like: there isn't enough 
room in the bottom rack to hold some of my bigger items, like a 
round cookie sheet I use for rolls and muffins.  The center arm is 
not parallel to the ground, tilting a little bit to one side.  I 
don't know if this is a manufacturing defect or just an 
intentional feature to better distribute the spray, but it means 
that dinner plates fit only on one side of the bottom rack.  This 
hasn't proven to be an impediment, as 80% of my loads are cat 
bowls for the seven cats.  Pots and pans usually come out 
sparkling, and I appreciate the unusually big silverware rack 
spanning the entire depth along one side.  Bigger utensils, as per 
the height limitation just described, can't stand up, but there's 
a specific tray on the outside of the upper rack for them to be 
placed flat, or they can just be put somewhere in the upper rack 
anyway.  

All in all, I'm quite satisfied with the Sears product, although 
they did screw up the billing in a couple of ways that ended up 
costing me $20 more than it should have.  But I'll live.  

Art

In article <7j8vc5$2pn$1@ernie.rsvl.unisys.com>,
Arthur Shapiro <art.shapiro@unisys.com> wrote:
>
>The center arm is 
>not parallel to the ground, tilting a little bit to one side.  I 
>don't know if this is a manufacturing defect or just an 
>intentional feature to better distribute the spray, but it means 
>that dinner plates fit only on one side of the bottom rack.  

As I said in another post, it's deliberate; it allows you to stick
bigger items on both the top and bottom rack than you might otherwise.
You must have awfully big dinner plates to fit on only one side.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (@netcom.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6       <*>      http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het

"Why do you like my boyfriend to tie you up and beat me.?"
    -- ELIZA generates a poly moment

In article <7j8pqs$f4v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, kristina.schurr@dowjones.com wrote:

I'm going to use this post to make my response since the descriptions were
so clear.  And because I think reviews are the most useful when they
directly compare two or more items.

I have a Kenmore Ultra Wash purchased 2 years ago at Sears.  It was on
sale.  I don't remember the exact price but it was around $400.

> I bought a GE Monogram Dishwasher in 1998 and consider it to be one of
> the best purchases I ever made. It was more expensive than others, about
> $900, including an extra $100 for a 5-year GE warranty. But considering
> the great features, some of which I listed below, I think the higher
> price definitely was worth it. And when helping friends and family stack
> their dishwashers I realize just how user friendly - and extremely quiet
> - mine is.
> 
> *Stainless steel interior, to avoid the odors or stains that can occur
> with plastic-inside machines.

This is soooo important.  I just wasn't thinking when we bought ours.  It
has a plastic interior.  I'm chemically sensitive but don't ordinarily
react to plastic so it didn't occur to me there might be a problem.  But
this stuff is nasty.  It's the heat no doubt.  For the first many months I
could not be in the house when the dishwasher was on or for several hours
afterwards.  Then I could be in the house but not in the kitchen.  Now I
can be in the kitchen for brief periods but it still gets to me.  It's been
2 years!  Plastic never completely outgasses because to do that you'd have
to wear down all the plastic.

If and when I ever buy another dishwasher, it will have a stainless steel
interior, no matter how much extra it costs.

> *Delayed start option to take advantage of off-peak power prices.

I had to really talk my SO into agreeing to buy this higher priced model. 
It's main feature was the delayed start.  I was right...we use it all the
time and it makes a big difference.  We don't do it for off-peak but it is
nice to set it for when we'll be out of the house or in bed.

> *Removable cutlery basket that stays fixed inside the machine, i.e.,
> doesn't "float around" when replaced in bottom rack.

Mine too.

> *Removable filter so any food particles can easily be removed from
> inside machine.

Hmmm...I should find out if mine has this :-)

> *Cleaning power so strong I never rinse off gooey or gunked-on food and
> dishes come out amazingly clean.

Mine was touted as being like this but it isn't really.  It's worlds better
than most dishwashers though.  I think it's not working for us because of
several reasons: we run it a couple times a week so some of the food on the
dishes can be pretty old and dried; my SO often overloads the DW so the
water doesn't circulate; my SO often uses the settings that use the least
water and energy (this is a good thing but not always the best way to clean
the dishes).

> *Light that goes on to let you know when to add more drying aid.

Drying aid? that's what air is for :-)

> *Adjustable top rack feature to accomodate stemware.

Ours is adjustable too.

> *Interchangable bottom racks to accomodate more dishes or pots and pans.

We have some adjustablity, from pushing rack tines down or up.

> *Uses less water than other machines.

Ditto.

> *Have never experienced problems with light items, such as Rubbermaid
> foodstorage containers "thrown" around, even when placed in bottom rack.

Same.

> *Extra insulation to reduce noise.

I don't know how they do it but this DW is very quiet.  We can sleep with
it on and we only hear the water running through the pipes.  It does not
bother us in the living room, especially if we close the door to the
kitchen.

> *GE very responsive to questions on service since this is their
> top-of-the-line dishwasher.

We haven't needed any service so can't assess that.

> *Easy-to-use timer and selection buttons.

Yes.  Though the redunancy we have gets a bit confusing.

> I got the stainless steel front, but it's also available in black or
> white. Can also take custom cabinet cover but that costs more.

Ours is black and I forget all the options we had.

> Bought it at Karl's Appliances, which has stores in N.J., where I live.
> But this is a national line, so you can find it anywhere.

Our is availble only in Sears stores I think.

> I absolutely think this machine is well worth the extra cost.

It sure sounds like it is.

Other features ours has that I think are good:

Built-in water heater.  This is great cause we don't have to set the water
heater to be super hot all the time just for the times we want to run the
dishwasher.  (There is a button that lets you choose if you want to use the
heater.)

Front spacula holder on the top rack.  This is minor but I really like it.

Everything fits! I can put in the biggest pots I want to.  I haven't tried
with really huge things but the medium-large items that don't fit in most
dishwashers fit right in here.

Top and bottom water jets (okay so this is mundane now but older
dishwashers and really cheap ones have water jets only on one end which
doesn't get things as clean).

Disadvantages: none of the surface is magnetic (minor but I really like to
be able to put a clean/dirty magnet on the DW itself instead of on the
fridge).  yeah yeah, I'll dig out my velcro stickies eventually.

Cyndi

_______________________________________________________________________________
"There's nothing wrong with me.  Maybe there's                     Cyndi Norman
something wrong with the universe." (ST:TNG)           cyndi@consultclarity.com
                                                 http://www.consultclarity.com/
_________________ Owner of the Immune Website & Lists http://www.immuneweb.org/

In article <cnorman-ya02408000R0406991105350001@nntp1.ba.best.com>,
Cyndi Norman <cnorman@best.com> wrote:
>
>Front spacula holder on the top rack.  This is minor but I really like it.

I forgot to mention that one.  It's great for chopsticks.  I guess that
makes three of us that like this particular dishwasher.  I'll just note
that although I think it's pretty quiet, CU claims it's not all that
quiet.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (@netcom.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6       <*>      http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het

"Why do you like my boyfriend to tie you up and beat me.?"
    -- ELIZA generates a poly moment

In article <aahzFCtBz3.L2A@netcom.com>, aahz@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:

>As I said in another post, it's deliberate; it allows you to stick
>bigger items on both the top and bottom rack than you might otherwise.
>You must have awfully big dinner plates to fit on only one side.

Didn't realize that the upper rack is tilted as well...thanks for 
the clarification.  Thought it was just the spray arm.

I have one traditional Corelle dinner plate, which does fit 
anywhere in the bottom rack.  The others are a set of something 
called "Gibson AppleJack", 10.75" in diameter, and the center arm 
just brushes the top of a plate placed on the right side in the 
middle.  I'm too lazy to walk back to the kitchen, but I guess it 
would presumably bang into the plate if the plate were all the way 
to the right, against the silverwear tray.  And it presumably 
would just clear a plate nearer the center.  Let's simply call it 
marginal on the right side.  Again, this isn't a personal 
inconvenience, although it might be to someone doing a big load of 
plates every night and needing to maximize use of the bottom rack.

I still think this was a reasonable purchase...I like the unit.  
If one has special constraints such as the stainless steel 
requirement, then obviously the set of choices differs.

Art

cnorman@best.com (Cyndi Norman) wrote:
>In article <7j8pqs$f4v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, kristina.schurr@dowjones.com wrote:
>> *Stainless steel interior, to avoid the odors or stains that can occur
>> with plastic-inside machines.
>
>This is soooo important.  I just wasn't thinking when we bought ours.  It
>has a plastic interior.  I'm chemically sensitive but don't ordinarily
>react to plastic so it didn't occur to me there might be a problem.  But
>this stuff is nasty.  It's the heat no doubt.  For the first many months I
>could not be in the house when the dishwasher was on or for several hours
>afterwards.  Then I could be in the house but not in the kitchen.  Now I
>can be in the kitchen for brief periods but it still gets to me.  It's been
>2 years!  Plastic never completely outgasses because to do that you'd have
>to wear down all the plastic.
>
>If and when I ever buy another dishwasher, it will have a stainless steel
>interior, no matter how much extra it costs.


Even if you're not chemically sensitive, a stainless-steel interior keeps 
the dishwasher from developing that nasty sour smell inside.  Another 
high recommendation for this here.

The one thing I don't like about the dishwasher I have now is that 
there's no drain trap, so it tends to get clogged up with dish gunk and 
drain slowly and not clean as well.

-- 
                         ayse@netcom.com
   "Life is too important to take seriously." -- Corky Siegel

I most appreciate how she rubs my back before we go to sleep...

Sorry, I couldn't resist......

"Anne P. Mitchell, Esq." wrote:
> 
> We are going to be replacing our under-counter dishwasher soon (it _really_
> needs replacing!!!)
> 
> The thing about dishwashers is that there are so many different options, and
> configurations, that trying to choose one based on things like C.R. rankings
> doesn't really give you the full picture.  A machine may be made by a
> manufacturer with a sterling reputation, and garner great reviews, but once
> used by regular people, in day-to-day service, it becomes clear that the
> cutlery basket is in a bad place, it isn't really that quiet, the "power jets"
> blast all but the heaviest dishes off the racks, or that the racks themselves
> are just configured in a stupid fashion.
> 
> So, if there is something about your dishwasher which you really appreciate,
> would you please share with us what it is 
-- 
Lawrence Alpert                 larryal@thegrid.net
Sr. Extrusion Engineer          alpertl@bsci.com
Target Therapeutics
Boston Scientific Corp., Fremont, CA.

In article <7j85gv$sad$1@news.bayarea.net>, lawyerNOSPAM@netcom.com (Anne
P. Mitchell, Esq.) wrote:

> So, if there is something about your dishwasher which you really appreciate, 
> would you please share with us what it is (and what make and model dishwasher 
> you have?)

When we moved into this (new) house, we bought a Bosch 4300
(second-to-low-end-of-line); the kitchen is part of a "great room" and we
wanted something much quieter than the mid-range Whirlpools and GEs we'd
had before (almost always not out of choice). We also wanted something that
was more water-efficient.

It definitely is _quiet_. In fact, we only really hear the swishing of the
water, and even that's not loud. It definitely seems quieter than the
low-end Asko some friends of ours installed. It's efficient on water. It
gets everything we've put in it clean and dry, though we haven't really
tested the dried oatmeal and burnt-on sugar yet (!) And it _feels_ right --
the racks don't wobble and the door closes with a solid "thunk" sound, not
a cheap "crick" sound. About the only thing I didn't like about it was the
price ... but it sure seems like more dishwasher than we were buying for
$350-400. I would do it again in a heartbeat.
-- 
"This is only temporary -- unless it works!" -- Red Green

Steve & Joanne Dropkin: change .not to .net in the address!

On Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:12:55 -0700, "FNO Toolman"
<toolman@familynewsREMOVE.org> wrote:

>We *LOVE* our Maytag!!! No pre-wash, no scraping except the big chunks,
>and it all comes out clean. We have a DWU9202 Quiet Plus right now and a

We have a Maytag, too, middle-of-the-line. We like
* IT CLEANS REALLY WELL. And, no pre-wash and again only scrape large
items
* It has a clean light. This is a HUGE one for us, we would never get
one without again(no more wondering if the d/w is clean or dirty).
* noise level: It's in a peninsula lower cupboard space and is barely
audible
* Foldable racks mean variable configurations - sometimes you have
baking bowls, sometimes guests and lots of dinner plates. Also lots of
different ways of stacking bowls, glasses, dessert and bridge plates.
* The delay timer is nice: the dishwasher is nearly full, will take
couple extra things, so instead of having to remember to turn it on
later, I'll set the timer and in the meantime, any dirty dishes can be
put in
* did I mention IT CLEANS REALLY REALLY WELL
* It has a 'heat sensor' (which can be off) to heat the water if the
hot water heater is taxed right now (eg. showers, laundry)

Diane
---
mdm_NOSPAM@igs.net : remove _NOSPAM to reply

We are buying a dishwasher in the next couple of days.  We are down
to two choices:

Maytag MDB-9000 and Bosch SH5300.

The Maytag is supposedly quiet and trouble free, and from reading
various posts here, cleans really well.  We also like having
a mini-garbage disposal inside so no pre-rinsing is needed, but
we don't know how well it'll work.

The Bosch has a nicer user interface (push-buttons instead of keypad),
stainless steel tub, and it also supposed to be quiet (52db, however
loud or quiet that is), but don't have a disposal, but the food trap
seems easy to clean.  Do you need to pre-rinse?  

Bottomline is we don't know if the Bosch is worth that extra $150 or so.

Thanks for any advice or first hand experience with either of the above.

/tom

We have a top-of-the-line Sears Kenmore.  I paid more for it than
I would have for a lower model because
* the racks are covered with nylon, not vinyl.  I *hope* the
coating will last longer!
* premium sound-reducing.

It has a variety of ways of flipping the rack tines this
way and that to allow placement of odd items.  You know what?
I never use them.  Everything I want to wash will set in
around the tines just fine.  Even pots and mixing bowls just
get set down over the tines.  So what if they rest on the
tops of the tines?

The ridiculous thing about this washer is that after a week
of use it developed a vivid orange stain inside.  The repair
guy said that we needed to not wash tomato products in it
for the first 40 cycles.  Yeesh!  He gave us some cleaning
goop (I've forgotten the chemical name, but it's the same stuff
that's in acne medicine.  Really.)  That did a miraculous job
of cleaning the inside, and now that we're past the break-in
period, the liner withstands tomato products.  Like it should
have in the first place.  This certainly fits in with the
outgassing issue that someone else described here.
Topher Eliot
eliot@alum.mit.edu
Visit the house maintenance archive at http://www.geocities.com/heartland/7400