🚀 go-pugleaf

John P. Curcio (jpc@philabs.research.philips.com) wrote:

: In article <4qc31u$6qn@trog.me>, mlbohn@mtu.edu (ekim) writes:

: |> areas of energy efficiency (esp. transportation) and general availability
: |> of good reliable mass transit.  we really are a big joke to the rest of the
: |> world on this one.

: Not without good reason.  When most people compare the US to other countries,
: invariably the other countries are European.  The last time I looked, we have
: a much larger country, which makes efficient mass transit extremely
: difficult.  Add to that the built-in dependence on the automobile that has

i concur on this.  more difficult but not impossible.  especially since most
demand for mass transit is by definition in urban areas.

: been bred in the last fifty or so years, and you are facing an almost
: insurmountable task.  Should something be done?  Yes, where possible.  Should
: we tax gas to do it?  No way.  Why should rural people pay for something that
: will only benefit those in more populous areas?

Q:
why should urban people pay for something that only benefits rural people?
(farm product price supports comes to mind).  

A: 
because otherwise there would be an even greater and quicker demise of small
farmers (for example.  this is *a* reason).

also what is the chance that mom and pop rural might one day like to visit
DC, Chicago, Detroit, LA, San Francisco, New York, etc?  and what's the 
chance that a (yes) european style city transit system might make their visit
both more convenient and more enjoyable?

finally, as you mentioned, the big obstacle to this ideal is the foothold 
the auto-culture
has in this country.  cities have been allowed to sprawl (yes, out of control)
with no or very little consideration of the consequences.  consequences include
urban decay, lack of community, wasted resources (continual development of
new! strip malls whilst the ones in successive rings closer to the city
center are allowed to sit dormant, decay or be razed), and of course 
the dependence on the auto which is what started this whole discussion. 
i.e. it is now a viscious circle:  urban sprawl necessitates the use of auto,
love of the auto induces urban sprawl.  of course there are other social
influences such as the white flight of the 60's which helped create the
current situation, but whatever the cause if individuals, communities and
governments don't start addressing this issue in a serious and non-political
fashion then i'd dare say this country is f___ed.

face it, many of our other problems have roots in this one.  such as 
education, violence, and a general lack of respect for our fellow citizens.


: |> gas *should* cost $2 a gallon.  you'd have much fewer
: |> people driving mustangs/corvettes/lincoln town cars etc.  people might think
: |> twice about driving that 30 foot behemoth rv (for just two people!) around
: |> the u.s. as well.  and NO EXCEPTIONS for the trucking lobby either.  

: So you are willing to pay much higher prices for goods and services, since
: the higher taxes on trucking will be passed on to you?  Doesn't sound like a
: good idea to me.

not stated like that but you oversimplify.  again who pays for the damage to
the roads caused by trucking (ever wonder why some roads are *always* under
repair?)?  How much of the current shipping via truck would be transfered
back to rail (much more efficient for long hauls) if the correct tax and
infrastructure incentives were to be put in place?  i'm not saying i want to
ban trucking, i would just rather let the free market decide how goods are
shipped.  why should i have to subsidize the trucking industry with my tax
dollars?

: [...and from his signature...]

: |> USA: Land of the misinformed, home of the narrowminded?  Looking more that way
: |> every day.  Maybe we should ban *TV*.  and legal bribery of our government
: |> officials.  and corporate welfare.  maybe we should stop subsidizing big oil.
: |> maybe we should encourage preventative medicine.  maybe we should learn how
: |> to respect one another.  maybe we should get off our high horse.  maybe we
: |> should tone down our worship of the Almighty$Dollar.  after all, the founding
: |> fathers *did* suggest the separation of church and state.

: I see the point here.  You want to control and ban things that you don't
: like.  This is the land of the free-- I should be able to drive whatever
: vehicle I damn well choose.  You want to limit that.  You want to ban TV. 
: Admit it-- you're just a control freak!

no, actually i wanted to see what kind of reaction some 'non-usa-approved'
opinion would garner.  face it, discussion in this country is stifled. if you
don't parrot the conventional wisdom of the conventional parties (party?)
then you are a radical or a misfit.  free thought is not one of the high-
priority  freedoms in the land of the free.  banning tv is a humorous but
thought-provoking suggestion (did you notice the maybes?).  i wonder what
might happen if people spent more time with their kids doing other things
besides watching TV?  for the most part (yes obviously there are exceptions) 
this is a mind-numbing activity.  nothing is accomplished, time is 'spent', 
and children miss out on real (non-virtual) social interaction.  

and i really dont care what vehicle you drive, all i'm saying is we as
a nation might become more responsible with our natural resources if the
system wasnt tilted in favor of waste.  this is actually a conservative
viewpoint, one that seems to be lost on conservatives and liberals alike
in our country. 

but hey, maybe you'd be more comfortable if i just kept bleating with you and
the rest of the flock.

mike


: =============================================================================
: John P. Curcio  jpc@philabs.philips.com  Philips Labs  Briarcliff Manor, NY
:      "The only thing the Democrats have to offer is fear itself"
:    "No goats, no boats, no motorcars, not a single 'yes-siree!'"  -BH

--
mike
/
--^^^^
USA: Land of the misinformed, home of the narrowminded?  Looking more that way
every day.  Maybe we should ban *TV*.  and legal bribery of our government
officials.  and corporate welfare.  maybe we should stop subsidizing big oil.
maybe we should encourage preventative medicine.  maybe we should learn how
to respect one another.  maybe we should get off our high horse.  maybe we
should tone down our worship of the Almighty$Dollar.  after all, the founding
fathers *did* suggest the separation of church and state.