🚀 go-pugleaf

"gumshoe detective" <gumshoes@free.com> wrote in message
news:5kROc.55919$vJ6.2769@cyclops.nntpserver.com...
> Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in
> news:aohng0lh3eaof3q1i9u2vcmpv2rfug9bm7@4ax.com:
>
> Whoo hoo!  The fact of the matter is we know that aggression and
> intelligence are hereditary.  We know that race is hereditary.  Thus, we
> can reasonably conclude that there is a strong likelihood that certain
> traits will be found in, of more prevalent in, certain racial lines.

Hold on.  Ever hear of a "child of rage?"  Abused children, unloved
children, children subjected to a lot of trauma, etc etc. can cause later
rate - i.e., AGGRESSION.   The problem with using that kind of data is that
it's NOT across the board, it really isn't.  Are ALL less-intelligent people
prone to crime?  Down's Syndromes do not predominate in jails.  So - no.
Abused children USUALLY become abusive people - but not 100% of the time.  I
often wonder what these children ate as babies and children - and what the
mothers ate when they were pregnant.  I lived thru seeing the SAME
population of people - blacks - go from nice, friendly, family values,
religious, shy and timid - to monsters one generation later with rage enough
to blow up the moon and tear up anything in their wake.  Genetic stuff
doesn't work that fast.  So how can that happen?

I have a question no one seems to want to answer.  OF those blacks that tend
to be criminal types (out of all the blacks in a given place) - in the USA
we know they are not all black - they are something else also, like 40%
white of some kind.  WHAT else?  Specifically what else are they?  In
Africa, which groups (they are different nationalities there) are more or
less violent - and which ones are peaceful?
>
>
> Yes, lots of things are undiscovered because no one has looked.  But you
> are trying to find things to explain away the pheonomenon of high black
> crime, low black intelligence, and high black failure and you CANNOT do
it.

High black crime is a reality.  The WHY is really not answered.  Blacks that
aren't like that, tend to think it's a self-image, self-hate issue.  The
behavior fits that in that if you give ANYONE like that what they claim they
want, they tear it to pieces and still fly into rages.  I see the stats, the
genetic argument, the IQ argument - but it doesn't hold across the board.
It doesn't answer HOW people that are one way, can all of sudden become the
opposite way in one generation.
>
> It is clearly racial.  Even an idiot can see that.  Which means you are a
> sub-idiot, Bob.
>
> You know damn well that blacks are less intelligent and more criminal.
> Many months ago I asked you and Alberto why what we see in the black
> community fulfills our expectations given their low IQ.  You refused to
> answer.

Maybe he didn't answer because what you can see in OTHER low IQ populations
doesn't fit.  Heh, I usually argue with Bob on this issue - siding more or
less with MMD.  Or so it would seem to Bob :)  I have an open mind on it.
Asperin can prevent heart attacks.  FACT.  Across the board fact.  You can't
find something that explains any of this that fits ACROSS THE BOARD -
absolute fit.
>
> Theoretically speaking, let's say there was a race that was less
> intelligent and more criminal than all other races, just for the sake of
> argument.  What would our real-world expectations be for that race?

They'd wipe out more peaceful intelligent folks using brute force - and take
over.  LMAO.
>
> How is this any different than what we see with black people?
>
> It isn't.  Every single thing that we would expect to see with black
> people--everything that man said about black people HUNDREDS of years
ago--
> we see to this very day.  We have plentiful evidence of negro inferiority
> for those who choose not to ignore the truth.

Another problem is the word "inferior" and the word "superior."  In terms of
evolutionary biology - the ONLY superior organism is that which survives.
They who have the most offspring WILL be the winners - that is - the FITTEST
in terms of biology.
>
> > No one knows why, or
> > whether there are longer term effects, but at least for the nonce, my
> > health may be slightly better.
>
> Yes, we know why.  It's because we are all DIFFERENT and NOT EQUAL.
> Certain people don't produce certain enzymes necessary for the metabolism
> of certain drugs.  Consequently, taking these drugs has a toxic effect on
> those people because their bodies can not get rid of the drug.
>
> The basis for that is genetic.

The basis for MOST brain development is also uterine environment, mother's
diet included and brain development later on - and DIET DOES have a BIG
effect on this.  So we don't know.  BUT - putting bans on studies of this
kind of thing is not going to enable anyone to KNOW the whys of any of it.
I'm open on the whole thing.  MAYBE genes can explain it.  I posted a thing
on clades and lineages, and on the foxes that were selected for behavior
ONLY - with the result that they got friendler foxes with a whole different
appearance.  Behavior/appearance changed.  There might be 1 or 2 genes
involved.  Also, if you change the jaw muscles, you get a change in cranium,
brain change, behavior change.  They can ID clades, lineages and compare
them and look at the genes and at them "this first clade ALL has this gene,
they ALL look like 'this' and they ALL behave like 'that'.'  Compare to
another second clade.  Insert a gene and get proteins from that gene.  Or
delete gene, deleting proteins that organism never gets.  They get the first
clade. It looks/behaves like first clade - like a cascade effect all in ONE
gene.  Experiments were done with animals on this - but not with humans -
can't do that with humans.
>
> All thoughts and all emotions humans have are chemical reactions in the
> brain.  We know that genetics determines the levels of these chemicals, in
> addition to amounts of gray matter in the brain.

Wait a minute - genetics does not determine what thoughts you have, or what
emotions you have.  If you were abandoned as a baby and beaten as a child,
you are NOT gonna have the same thoughts/emotions as a kid that received
warmth and love.  Period.  If you want a glimpse of some monozygotic twin
studies where the twins are definitely NOT the same - see this url
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/lewontin.html
Ignore the site it's on and ignore the preface.  There are hard facts there
in the actual article.

It is even known that kids subjected to bullying suffer TRAUMA - and it
takes years for the BRAIN to heal from it.  The trauma and the brain "scar"
came from outside the kid - not genetic at all.

Your denial of commonly
> known facts does not change things, Bob.
>
> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/2306.html
>
> "Scientists believe understanding an individual's genetic makeup is the
key
> to creating personalized drugs with greater efficacy and safety. While
> widespread application still lies far in the future, pharmacogenomics has
> the potential to personalize medical therapies because it is based on
> genetic testing for predisposition to disease or response to therapeutic
> intervention (i.e. a medication, or radiation therapy)."
>
> You fucking idiot.

Splat - another WHOLE bowl of jello just flew by....
>

> I know because of the fact that the phenomenon that we see with black
> people knows no cultural, geographic, or socio-economic boundaries.  The
> basis for arguments of people of your ilk are that they are culturally
> based (poverty, cultural norms, legacy of slavery, etc.).

Imo, Bob makes WAY too many excuses - and even regards me as a racist slime
(LMAO) for entertaining the POSSIBILITY that "ONE GENE" might account for
the whole "appearance" that is associated with black.  Fact is, whether or
not "races" exist - for my REAL OPINION - is a matter of whether you choose
to lump or split.  If you bring up the crime stats - as you have done, Bob
will ask  you to DEFINE what black is.  LOL.
>
> The fact is even rich blacks are disproportionately criminal.  The fact is
> that black crime is high all over the world.
>
> Thus, the connection can not be cultural, socio-economic, or anything
else.
> The only other common trait these geographically diverse black populations
> share is genetics.

The problem with that argument is that there is so much genetic diversity IN
BLACKS that are in Africa - that how can you define a population there?
>
> FACT:  Blacks perform below all races in intelligence tests and academic
> performance ALL OVER THE WORLD.
>
> FACT:  Blacks have the lowest economic standing in ALL COUNTRIES all over
> the world.
>
> FACT:  Blacks have the highest criminality of all races in ALL COUNTRIES
> all over the world.
>
> FACT:  Black people share common genetic traits.

FACT: heh, blacks share a lot less common genetic traits than any other
populations do!  :)  More genetic diversity there.  LESS genetic diversity
anywhere else.
>
> > How would you know?
>
> How would I know?  Why don't you add two legacies of slavery and then
> divide by the square root of oppression?  Tell me what answer you get.

Lots of people have a legacy of slavery and even genocide done to them - and
oppression.  Imo, it's excuses like that, that CONTRIBUTE to rage and
self-hate.
> >
> >>and can never be proven one way or another because they have
> >>nothing to do with why black people behave the way they do.
> >
> > How could you know?
>
> Because WHITE PEOPLE and ASIAN PEOPLE do not behave in the same way when
> faced with the same socio-economic conditions.

True.  But did black people behave that way when they were in their own
communities under Jim Crow?  They were dejure segregated.  Other ethnic
groups were defacto segregated and they segregated themselves in most
cases - and pooled together - got a foot in the door in a capitalist society
here.
>
> >>Bob, why is black crime disproporationately high from Canada to
> >>England to Africa?
> >
> > I don't know that it is (and I don't care),

You would care if you lived thru what I lived thru - and probably what these
posters here lived thru.  That's why I don't call it racism.
>
> Nope.  Disproportionate does not require eliminating all those other
> bullshit variables you make up.  It requires one look at different races
in
> similar circumstances and then measuring their performance.

They weren't in similar circumstances - at least not in the USA.  Unlike
other ethnic groups who defacto segregated for the most part and preferred
their own ethnic stuff - blacks were given free reign to socially
integrate - and then were forcibly integrated.  Where did their economic
base go after Jim Crow segregation was gone?  Guess.  Blacks also stand out
a LOT more than anyone else stands out.  It's not just a skin color thing.
It's everything about them.
>
> FACT:  poor whites outscore rich blacks on SATs.
> > >
> > And I'm not a subhuman racist slime like you.
>
> Oooh, what an insult.  The truth is the truth.  I'll stand on the side of
> the truth every time despite your attempts to win me over to your side
with
> insults.

Yah, hurling that subhuman racist slime insult gets a bit tired.  It's
abusive as hell.  I'm a Tatar.  I was born here.  My parents were not; they
same from Stalinist USSR.  My grandparents came from the nomadic life
steppes.   I do not OWE blacks anything - despite having lived here and
"benefited" from it.  Benefited?  LMAO.  That's an assumption that can't be
proven or disproven.  Did grandparents benefit from Lenin/Stalin?  They'd
say no.  If not for all that, I'd have been born there, working 3 hours a
day for ALL my needs, and living a very stress-free easy-going life - a
thousands of years old way of life, too.  I seriously take issue with ANYONE
that tells me I owe them something.  Like hell I do.  We didn't wreck THEIR
neighborhood.  They wrecked ours.
>
> Uh huh.  So, information that I presented previously by the African-
> American Men Project is tainted because I quoted it?  And not only that,
> but you are calling a group of black people racist because they published
a
> study about black people that you don't want to acknowledge???
>