🚀 go-pugleaf

Bob LeChevalier wrote:
> "Comm" <no@spam.com> wrote:
> >What the hey?  See in.
> >
> >"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
> >news:koqdg11r0oiuiajksgl98ue8d12rli7ukd@4ax.com...
> >> "Comm" <no@spam.com> wrote:
> >>>"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
> >>>news:ro5ef1dtm1sanutvfp9vcmol1321a9q2mm@4ax.com...
> >>>>>The problem with that is that by the time about a year goes by for
> >>>>>anyone
> >>>>>to
> >>>>>learn "first year ebonics" the language of ebonics will have
> >>>>>significantly
> >>>>>CHANGED.
> >>>>
> >>>> As I said, nobody is learning "first year ebonics", since nobody is
> >>>> teaching it.
> >>>
> >>>I haven't read the entire LONGwinded thread, heh.  Just saw this post from
> >>>you.  I know nobody's teaching it.  But how could anyone teach a language
> >>>that changes so fast?
> >>
> >> Who is teaching the language?
> >
> >I have no idea IF it's being taught.
>
> No one has yet posted information about an Ebonic program that was
> intended to "teach the language".  The idea is to inform the
> *teachers* as to what the differences between Black English Vernacular
> and the academic standard language, so that the *teachers* can
> understand what the students are saying and when an error might be due
> to the nonstandard language rather than failure to understand the
> concepts, in which case the job of the teacher is *different*.  When a
> foreigner makes a mistake, the teacher likely will recognize the
> difference between a conceptual misunderstanding and a language error,
> but that is far less likely with a native speaker, especially one
> speaking a dialect that is so much derided.  The teachers also tend to
> have the same misconceptions about the nature of the differences as
> the racists who post obviously phony "ebonics talk".

The only racists are the ones who want to hold blacks back by
validating bad English. Don't cry, racist.

>
>
> >>If you understood what an Ebonics
> >> program was, you wouldn't ask such a silly question, since no one in
> >> fact teaches "a language that changes so fast".
> >
> >I didn't ask a damned question.  I was commenting on teaching ANY KIND of
> >language (ebonics as an eg) that changes very fast.  It's not possible.
>
> All languages change fast on the surface and very slowly underneath.
> Ebonics has not changed all that much.
>
> >> But as another form of answer, the language known as "Latin" evolved
> >> over a thousand years, and the church Latin spoken today is quite
> >> different from any form that was spoken in the Roman Republic or
> >> Empire.
> >
> >Yup, I know that, that used to be my example when people bitched about "bad
> >language."  Once upon a time, Spanish, French, Italian and a few others were
> >BAD LATIN.  Now they are LANGUAGES.  What tends to keep languages in stasis
> >long enough to be able to teach them, is when they are written languages
> >with some rule book on grammar.  Like English has.
>
> English has continued to change at pretty much the same rate as it did
> before there were rule books.  The only thing that has really
> standardized is spelling.  The thing that causes rapid language change
> that is more significant is when a new power takes over that speaks a
> different language, as when the French Normans ruled England.  That
> prompted the rather dramatic change from Old English to Middle
> English, but even that took a couple hundred years.
>
> Middle English changing to modern English also took a hundred years or
> more, and much of the change was a change in pronunciation called the
> Great Sound Shift that affected German as well as English.  No one is
> quite sure why it took place.  But if you take a Middle English text
> and write with modern spellings, the text will likely be quite
> understandable.
>
> >In case you didn't
> >notice, not too many god damned English words are SPELLED the way they're
> >pronounced
>
> But spelling is not a particularly important part of language, and it
> has NOTHING to do with the spoken language.
>
> lojbab
> --
> lojbab                                             lojbab@lojban.org
> Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
> (Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
> Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:                 http://www.lojban.org