🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1993Jan3.143413.2350@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> turnerbl@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
>
>>>How about a new topic, like the horrible failure of the academic system to
>>>graduate african american students?  Just a thought.  
>>>
>> Your political correctness is showing.  How about the failure of african
>> american students to graduate from the academic system?
>		    *****my what?  how dare you!****
>>>
>>>B Turner
>>>Admissions Officer
>>>University of Cincinnati
>>>
>> One answer is that admissions officers admit students that can't do 
>> university level work because of affirmative discrimation programs. 
>
>
>wrong pal!  we admit qualified students who meet the criteria set forth by our
>boards and the politicans who appoint them.  If you have a problem with that, I
>suggest you vote them in/out.  
>
Politically "qualified" or academically qualified?

>As far as affirmative action, you are way out of line.  To quote a current tv
>commercial, "como esta usted."  The complection of this country is changing and
>in the early part of the next century, the majority of the USA will be made up
>of non-white americans.  Now, we have two choices.  The first is to exclude
>them from the educational opportunities that will enable all of us to function
>in a multi cultural society.  Or we can throw a big wall up around ourselves
>and  get some of those used "africanners only" signs.  Your choice.

Are the affirmative discrimination programs admitting people who are likely
to fail or not?  You gave your opinion that the universities need to 
admit by the "rainbow" but you don't tell us if that is the criteria
for admission.  If the criteria in an affirmative discrimination program
is skin color, are we to be suprised that there is a high failure rate
among those admitted under that program?

[For the record, my children are of half chinese ancestory; I certainly don't
expect them to be admitted to a university under an affirmative 
discrimination program.]

>
>> It seems more and more students, both black and white, can't do
>> university level work because the public school system AND their families
>> have failed to make sure that they are educated. 
>
>Or could it be because state governments/local voters refuse to fund the
>systems that are supposed to educate ALL the students, not just the rich white
>suburban ones?  Your ignorance of higher education is showing and your opinions
>prove it.
>
The Chicago Public school system, probably the worst of big city school
systems in the country in terms of graduation rates and test scores, gets
more money per pupil (about $1000 more per year) than the suburban school
districts in the Chicago area.  Money is not the answer!
(Admittedly, I think that very strong unions and a huge bureacracy eat up
more than the difference.  But this doesn't mean that the state or feds
should give them more money.  It is a matter for the Chicago taxpayers who
need to stand up to the unions and the school administration.)

>(I could go into my
>> anti-public school ranting and raving at this time but I won't.) The
>> universities can't make up for 12 years of wasted time.
>
>But we can try to make a difference in the lives of each and every student who
>tries to.  You, it would seem, would rather replicate yourself only.  Nice try,
>but the math will win out in the end and you will have to deal with the facts,
>like them or not.  Unless you want a lot of ill-eduacted, racialy divided, and
>not real happy with you folks out-voting you and unable to get jobs (ie unable
>to cntribute to YOUR Social Security) we have to do a better job of educating
>all our young people.  What do you think?
>
Mr. Turner, I have no easy answers to the problem.  Two of the answers
provided by liberals, 1. More money and 2. affirmative discrimination
don't work, in my opinion.  The affirmative discrimination programs which 
admit unqualified students either set the students up to fail or turn the
university into a provider of elementary and high school ("remedial")
classes.

("replicate" myself??? - unfair criticism.  I am opposed to all 
discrimination, whatever nice names you give it.)

(Somebody did write me an interesting email note about this.  He said
that minority students fail more often even when they are equally qualifed
- at least as well as can be measured by test scores and grades.  He also
suggested that this was due to discrimination in the universities.  If this
is true then that discrimination, as is ANY racial discrimination, is 
wrong. If the minority student is treated differently because he or she
is minority I am opposed to it.)

Interesting how some minorities (those with asian ancestors) can often do
so well, isn't it?  And if there is not institutional discrimination, and
I am not sure there is not, there is certainly discrimination by other
students against the asian students (it has occured to my children when
they were called names or harassed for their looks).  Yet, inspite of this
discrimination, these students are often the most successful.  Knowing
a little about Chinese families through my wife and her family, I am led to
believe that the difference is the importance that a stable family puts on
education.   

[The only real answer to society's problems is found in my signature.]

Signature follows:
"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and
there is none else."  Isaiah 45:22
=========================================================================
David L. Hanson       Internet --> dlhanson@nap.amoco.com
Amoco Corporation     X.400    --> A=attmail,P=amoco,S=Hanson,G=David,I=L
Any opinions expressed are my own!