🚀 go-pugleaf

Wow,
	I never though I would get this kind of responce from an news
	posting. I got over 15 mail messages in under 24 hours. Since 
	many of the messages were comments to prior postings, I only 
	hope that I am quoting the true source of the following 
	statements.

	Finally, I did get many requests to submit this file as part 
	of a FAQ list that would be accessable to others via ftp. If 
	the moderator of any group would please drop me a line giving 
	the "ftp site of choice", I'd be glad to upload it. 

	Thanks again to those who replied. Now on with the synopsis.

	..steve...
	
	First, my original post/question; In misc.education I wrote:
	    >Hi,
	    >	I'm looking for some decent educational software for 
	    >	the 6 to 10 year old range. Shareware and Freeware is
	    >	perferred although I'd be interested in hearing any
	    >	feedback on any comerical package too.
	    >	I'd be glad to post a synopsis if I get any requests.
	    >	...steve...
	    >----------------------------------------
	    >Steve Rosen     rosen@cbnewsb.cb.att.com
	    >                      srosen@attmail.com
	    >                          attmail!srosen
	    >----------------------------------------

	Cooments, suggestions and feedback follow:
	=================================================================
	Laura Walsh (lwalsh@nemo.life.uiuc.edu) wrote:

	I just bought a program called Math Shop from Scholastic
	Software (it cost ~$80, but I got the "teacher's edition",
	which was more expensive.)  At any rate, the concept is
	that the student is a worker in any one of 9 different
	stores at the mall.  He/she has to measure wood, melt
	gold bars, and "fix" calculators, in the 3 games I looked
	at so far.  It is moderately difficult, which is nice
	compared to too simplistic games I have, which only
	require computation skills, not thinking. [NumberMaze
	is ok, but it is largely drill -- the math isn't the
	thing that is interesting, the maze is.]  I found the
	reference for this program in a book I got at the library.
	The exact title I forget, but it was something like
	The Parents Guide to Educational Software.  Despite
	being 3 years old, I found the book very helpful.
	We have lots of other commercial software: Outnumbered,
	KidsMath (good), KidsTime (good), Reader Rabbit (boring),
	SpellQuest (poor voice quality), Kid Pix (very motivating),
	Print Shop (fun and useful), Word Munchers (ok, good
	idea), Swamp Gas (I like this one myself), and Swamp
	Gas in Europe (this one, too), Carmen SanDiego (I must
	be one of the few people who do NOT like this one.),
	Oregon Trail (don't be put off by the recommendation 
	for 10 years old and older.  My 6 and 8 year olds
	like this one), SimEarth (difficult), SimAnt(easier,
	but doesn't appeal to me), Earthquest (not very interesting
	to kids), SimCity (some kids love it), Sim Life (I have
	it, but haven't tried it yet), Voyager (first version
	is what I have -- very difficult, but fascinating),
	Physics (the version I have is very old and rather
	boring -- I think it has since been markedly improved).
	I probably haven't mentioned them all.

	I would like to get your summary, if you do one.
	Thanks
	Laura Walsh (lwalsh@nemo.life.uiuc.edu)

	=================================================================
	
	larson@minerva.sws.uiuc.edu (Bob Larson) passed along a reply to
	a prior posting from bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) that was 
	appropreate. [Thanks also to Dave who sent his original post]

	In <29136@optima.cs.arizona.edu> bakken@cs.arizona.edu 
		(Dave Bakken) writes:

Dave---->I am getting a low-end 486 machine this week, and a major use will
	>be for educational programs and (educational!) games for my
	>daughter.  However, I don't know where to start to find out
	>what would be good for her (she already types on my terminal
	>at home and knows almost all of her letters).  I guess we
	>would be looking for some programs to help her with counting,
	>letters/typing, and basic reading skills.  Also, games that
	>develop reasoning skills would be great.

	>The machine will have MeSsy DOS and Windows 3.1 and a soundcard,
	>in case it matters.

	>I've seen or heard about the following programs (titles from memory):

	>	- Playroom (has games to develop reasoning skills)

Bob---> We have playroom, and I don't think we gotten our money's worth
	out of it, although at first I thought it was pretty good. There
	was only one game which really got used alot.  It does have a good
	mouse driven interface.  Copy protection is by pattern matching with
	a picture on the back of the manual.  My kids lost the manual about
	six months ago, but I was able to bypass the copy protection.

	>	- Rabbit Math
	>	- Reader Rabbit I

	Both are on my shopping list -- I've heard good things.

	>	- Bearanstain Bears do Counting (she *loves* their books)

	I'd say this good *if* you get decent speach out of your internal
	speaker (which my pc doesn't).  A wide variety of games.
	The interface isn't all that great - starting the game requires
	reading ability.  I prefer mouse driven interfaces for younger kids.

	>	- Kiddesk (locks kids out of parts of the file system)

	We just got this a few weeks ago.  I (and my kids) really like it.
	They really hype up the ability to protect your files, which I
	consider a minor function of it.  Besides, after all their hype,
	the adult's password is echoed to the screen - it took my
	7 y.o. only a couple of days to learn mine.  It supports alot
	of soundcards, but requires a soundblaster or sb pro for the
	kids to record messages - which my kids really enjoy.  Also
	helps teach telling time and calender use. Buying KidDesk
	was probably the best money I've spent on my computer since
	4dos, which BTW, kiddesk won't run under.


	>Can anyone comment on how good these are, or reccommend similar
	>ones?   Also, if you've bought them, what is a decent price?

	A few comments on some other games:

	I don't like the disney games that we have tried (Donald's
	alphabet and some other one).  The kids got bored with them, 
	and pattern matching copy protection every time you run it.

	Seseme Street games: The coloring games are ok, Astro Grover
	is awful - requires a keyboard template!  Ernie's Bathtub does
	also, but it's more tolerable.

	>Also, are there any mail order places that have a wide selection
	>of educational programs and also have reasonable prices?

	How about by anonymous ftp?  The following are available
	from simtel and it's mirrors in the msdos/education directory,
	which actually has a lot of programs, but a lot of garbage.
	The following have gotten used in our house:

AALPHA.ZIP    B  485008  921026  Animated Alphabet for pre-school to 1st grader
AMATH1.ZIP    B  364071  921026  Animated Math: counting/addition/subtraction
AMEM10.ZIP    B  254102  921026  Animated Memory Game: aids kids' memory skills
ANIMSHAP.ZIP  B  294552  921026  Animated Shapes: shape & color identification
AWCMP1.ZIP    B  360428  920623  Animated Words spelling game for children, 1/2
AWCMP2.ZIP    B  346621  920623  Animated Words spelling game for children, 2/2
 
	My kids really like the animated series. Animation is done with 
	Grasp and tends to really entertain the kids.  Only 1 of the
	more recent ones supports soundcards, but the sound wasn't done
	very well.  All in all, the animation more than makes up for the
	lack of sound quality.  Registration is very reasonable, $10-15.
	 
ABC430.ZIP    B  192306  920920  ABC Fun Keys: Teach children ABCs, v4.30
	 
	This contains 4 games all designed to teach the alphabet and 
	keyboard layout, but not touch typing.  My kids enjoyed them, 
	even after they learned the keyboard.
	 
ABCTLK25.ZIP  B  273411  920820  Teaches children to talk, read/alphabet/spell
123TLK22.ZIP  B  177314  911116  Talking Teacher: Child learns numbers/counting
	 
	We are just now trying out these games.  The shareware version uses the
	pc internal speaker; with registration you have the choice of
	versions which either use the internal speaker or a soundblaster. Both
	have a games for a wide range of skill levels.  Registered version of
	ABC-Talk has the option of displaying words in cursive - rather unusual.
	My initial reaction is utter shock at the nag messages - both on-screen
	and VERBAL! "Please register your shareware" verbal messages on both
	ends.  Almost deleted it right then, but I restrained myself.
	 
	Another game which my girls liked. 
WRDGLRY.ZIP   B  147908  900110  Match words with pictures, children ages 4-7

	-- 
	Bob Larson					Illinois State Water Survey
	blarson@uiuc.edu				2204 Griffith Drive
	Voice: (217)333-7955				Champaign, IL 61820
	Fax:   (217)333-6540
	=================================================================

	parnes@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (Sheldon Parnes) also replyed to 
	Dave Bakken's post as follows:

Dave--->: I've seen or heard about the following programs (titles from memory):
	: 	- Playroom (has games to develop reasoning skills)
Sheldon>Playroom has a nice collection of games but a keydisk system for 
	preschoolers
	is a really dumb idea.  My three year liked this game but the disk is 
	gone and so is the game.

	: 	- Rabbit Math
	haven't seen it
	:	- Reader Rabbit I
	Probably the most helpful game in terms of teaching reading but 
	actually not a lot of fun.  It gets no play currently.  My daughter 
	may be too young but could play roughly half the games.

	: 	- Bearanstain Bears do Counting (she *loves* their books)
	don't know anything about this

	: 	- Kiddesk (locks kids out of parts of the file system)
	for $20 bucks at Egghead, this is probably worth getting.  I certainly 
	feel more comfortable with it running.  Probably better for older kids
	(5 or 6), I suspect most kids will eventually figure out how to escape
	to the adult sectionsthe program looks good but does seem to have some
	stability problems.

	: 	- Kidpix (kid painting program)
	don't know

	: Can anyone comment on how good these are, or reccommend similar
	: ones?   Also, if you've bought them, what is a decent price?
	Snoopy's Game Club is a very nice game (Sam's Club ($28.00)

	Learn the Alphabet by Topclass ($11.oo) EB and CompUSA better for 
	younger children then Reader Rabbit, maybe better and a lot cheaper.

	Memory Games by Top Class ($11.00) EB and CompUSA a bunch of memory games
	like concentration, etc.  simple and fun.

	=================================================================

	Next, was this comment from ncl@philabs.philips.com (Nai-Chi Lee):

	For young kids 3 to 5 years old, I strongly recommend PlayRoom by 
	Broderbund. It can be bought from many mail-order places for around 
	$28.  A word of caution though, the version I have is very old (1989?)
	and does not behave well under Windows when using Sound Blaster. I
	heard that Broderbund had a newer version out with better sound 
	support. 

	For older kids (or for an extra-smart 4-year-old like my daughter ;-)
	TreeHouse is a good choice.  Think of it as a new-and-improved PlayRoom
	from Broderbund.  Also, KidPix (Broderbund, again) is great fun for kids
	from 3 to 10.

	Some shareware educational games are good, too.  Try the Animated-Series
	(AWORD, ASHAPE, AMATH, etc) by Tom Guthery IV.  Those are available from
	SimTel20 and other sites.

	--
	Nai-Chi

	Disclaimer: Broderbund did not pay me for this posting like it should.

	=================================================================

	lev@ipxed5.nswses.navy.mil (Lloyd E Vancil) wrote to say...

	I highly recommend the series of programs sold
	at radio shack.  I have purchased a few of them.
	My 11 year-old loves MATH-Blaster.  There are 
	a couple of programs based on dinosaurs, and another
	few based on a mystery.  None of these are yet windows programs
	but they use sound and the mouse or joystick.
--
|suned1!lev@elroy.JPL.Nasa.Gov|lev@suned1.nswses.navy.mil|sun!suntzu!suned1!lev|
|S.T.A.R.S. The revolution has begun!|  My Opinions are Mine mine mine hahahah!|

--
	=================================================================

	kellee@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kellee Noonan) forwarded the following
	to say...

	Playroom - my 4YO didn't like it she likes Manhole better.
	******8
	We also have an early explorer software series called McGee, McGee's
	Day at the Fun Fair and Katie's Farm. She loves them. I thought they
	were a bit simple, but she likes to explore with them.
	********
	No experience here with the others, except my daughter's 4YO friend
	has Reader Rabbit and she likes it but my 4YO is bored with it....
	no conclusive results there.
	********
	KidPix, I can only say YES YES YES!!!!! It is great. Actually, my
	husband bought it for me and I let my kids (4, 11, and 14) use it
	if they are extra nice to me. 

	The 4YO LOVES this program. It is the greatest kid program ever. The 
	sounds, and images and variety are great. All the tools and stamps and
	everything keep all of us happy for long times creating pictures and
	screens full of stuff.

	*********
	Other games we have are the Mickey Mouse (game is ok, but it requires
	a separate sound source box to hear it. We already had soundblaster, so
	it is a pain to have another sound device)

	For older kids, we have Math Blaster plus, OutNumbered, and Star Trek.

	Hope this helps. 

	=================================================================

	clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) forwarded this reply to the
	prior posting from kellee@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kellee Noonan)
	[see above]:

	In article <4310232@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> kellee@hpcc01.corp.hp.com 
		(Kellee Noonan) writes:
Kellee-->Playroom - my 4YO didn't like it she likes Manhole better.
	>******8
	>We also have an early explorer software series called McGee, McGee's
	>Day at the Fun Fair and Katie's Farm. She loves them. I thought they
	>were a bit simple, but she likes to explore with them.
	>********

Chare-> I'm going to try one of these.

	I don't know if Amy's Fun-2-3 is out for any platform other than
	the Commodore Amiga.  But my son is entranced by it.  To the point
	that we have to limit his time with the "doggie".  This is basically
	a counting game.  (Hey you out there who was worried that your
	daughter can't count!  This is it!).  Anyway there are four games
	ranging in levels of ability.

	The first game is a simple counting game.  The kid doesn't have
	to do anything but position the mouse pointer on a number.
	Then a woman's voice says, "8" and then something happens
	8 times, while the voice counts from 1 to 8, with an arrow
	appearing underneath a number as it is being said.

	The second game is a matching game.  This one is fun even
	if your kids doesn't know the numbers yet.  There is a slot
	machine where a number x appears in the middle, and then x fish
	on one side, and y apples on the other. (apples, fish are just
	examples, there are other objects too at random).  If the
	child puts the pointer on the x fish, the little doggy gets
	a bone, otherwise it goes onto the next spin.

	The third game is a music game.  There is a xylophone with
	numbers on the keys and a set of songs that you can choose.
	The numbers flash in a box, and you're supposed to hit the
	key with the number.  The little dog dances around.

	The fourth game is a finger counting game.  Here you must
	drop bricks on the correct number and the little dog
	puts up the number of fingers.

	Anyway I've noticed that my son can now recognize certain
	numbers and count his pacifiers (up to 3-4).  We're not
	pushing him or anything, but he's enjoying the computer game.

	They're also supposed to come out with an Amy's Play-B-C in
	the future.

	The author can be reached on internet:

			David Alves
			devasoft@cup.portal.com

	p.s. for older children (including adults) interested in world
	history there is "Civilization" out for Commodore Amiga, IBM PC
	and Macintosh.
	=================================================================

	atkins@stimpy.CND.HP.COM (Brian Atkins) had posted a request
	similar to mine. For clearity (and because of its lenght) I
	placed bars `|' in front of Brians entire message.
	Here is his synopsis:

|Here is a list of replies I got to both the question about Educational
|games and sound cards (which seem to go well together).
|
|Thanks to all why replied.  I finally got Treasure Cove by The Learning
|Company (a very good source, which even has an 800 tech support number!)
|
|See a prior post/reply on this subject which has information on
|"Software Reviews on File" at my public library.
|
|Brian
|------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Brian Atkins	atkins@cnd.hp.com	(303) 229-2114
|Hewlett-Packard (MS102)3404 E. Harmony Road, Ft. Collins, CO 80525-9599
|
|In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games you [Brian] writes:
|
|>I am looking for a source of information on educational games for
|>kids (for 386 IBM PC clones).  
|
|>I bought Treehouse from Broderbund and am very disappointed.But before 
|>I exchange it, I'd like to bone up on the educational games market.
|
|>1) Are there any magazines/news letters which review educational games 
|>	(CU, Parents, PC rags, etc.)?
|
|Only sporadicly, from what I have seen.  A few books on the subject
|have been written recently.
|B
|
|>2) Are there any mailing lists and/or notes groups where this type of
|>	information is discussed (there are a dozen or so permutations
|>	of "games.ibm.pc" notes groups, and rather than try them all,
|>	I'd like a pointer)?
|
|All I have seen are a lot of posts similar to your own, mainly
|in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games and in misc.kids (I think thats the group).
|There doesn't seem to be enough traffic for a new group.  I think
|a mailing list is a good idea -- I might have to consider doing
|that.
|
|What ages are your chidren?  I have a 5 y.o. and a 7 y.o., so I'm 
|somewhat familiar with the software for those age groups.  There is
|some good shareware out there as well, but you really have to pick 
|through all the crap to find the few gems that are available.
|
|I did buy a piece of software recently that the kids really enjoy.  
|It's called KidDesk, and is essentially a GUI designed for children.
|It allows them to launch other games from icons, and also has a 
|calender, clock, phone,and calculator on each kid's "desk". With a 
|Soundblaster, the clock talks, and each kid can leave verbal messages 
|to each other.  I wasn't really all that excited about it, but the 
|kids really enjoy it.
|
|The other games which have been getting a lot of use in our house are
|Apogee's Word Rescue and Math Rescue.  Both are Nintendo-type games
|Math Rescue is especially good - you can set the difficulty of the
|math problems, and choose between number problems, word problems, 
|or a comination.  My 7 year old can't get enough of it.  Both
|are shareware and available by ftp at wuarchive in the
|mirrors/msdos-games/Apogee directory.
|
|There is a lot of stuff on wuarchive in the mirrors/msdos/education
|directory, but like I said, a lot of it's crap.  Let me know what
|ages your kid(s) are, and I might be able to recommend some.
|
|=======================================================================
|
|Brian,
|I too have treehouse, it is great with the soundblaster pro, I bought 
|the speakers from Fred Meyers store and they came with built in amp, 
|look good and even included the transformer, all for 24.97. The sound 
|blast pro I got from egghead for 135 and with my company discount 
|card I got additional 10% off.  
|
|Why? Because it opens up a whole new dimmension to the child, the 
|good stuff like treehouse all have soundblaster support. I got my 
|kids 3 packages from "The Learning Company" 1. Treasure Cove, 2. 
|Treasure Mountain, 3. Treasure MathStorm.  They have excellent sound 
|board support.  I also have Zookeeper, Dinosaur Adventure by Knowlege 
|Adventure, once again excellent sound support.  Reader Rabbit 2, once 
|again, well you get the picture.  The list goes on! Its only starting 
|and with CD roms here, and getting cheaper, just think of the 
|possibilities, talking encyclopedias with real time video clips.
|As I said its really getting cool for kids.  Wished I had sound
|support when I was a kid.  I guess thats why.
|	
|Hope this helps.
|	
|--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|Do you have access to anonymous FTP?  There are a bunch of free and
|shareware games available from simtel20.army.mil.  Below I include an
|11/10 copy of 00-index.txt from the pd1:<msdos.education> directory.
|
|I am in the same boat as you are I think.  I just bought a computer
|and would like to be informed about commercial education software.
|Would you be so kind as to post a summary of the responses you get
|and/or forward a copy to me?
|
|NOTE: This list was created on Tue, 10 Nov 92 02:17:07 MST.
|Some files may have been added or deleted since that date.
|See file PD1:<MSDOS.FILEDOCS>AAAREAD.ME for additional information.
|
|NOTE: Type B is Binary; Type A is ASCII
|
|Directory PD1:<MSDOS.EDUCATION>
| Filename   Type Length   Date   Description
|==============================================
|123TLK22.ZIP  B  177314  911116  Talking Teacher: Child learns numbers/counting
|AALPHA.ZIP    B  485008  921026  Animated Alphabet for pre-school to 1st grader
|ABC430.ZIP    B  192306  920920  ABC Fun Keys: Teach children ABCs, v4.30
|ABCTLK25.ZIP  B  273411  920820  Teaches children to talk, read/alphabet/spell
|AIRCOND.ZIP   B   51268  910802  Airconditioning repair knowledge self-test CGA
|ALGEBRAX.ZIP  B   74670  891215  Professor Weissman's Algebra tutor, v1.50
|AMATH1.ZIP    B  364071  921026  Animated Math: counting/addition/subtraction
|AMEM10.ZIP    B  254102  921026  Animated Memory Game: aids kids' memory skills
|AMYPRIME.ZIP  B   45663  870914  Educational children's games
|ANIMALS.ZIP   B   28824  900120  Number games for children
|ANIMSHAP.ZIP  B  294552  921026  Animated Shapes: shape & color identification
|AWCMP1.ZIP    B  360428  920623  Animated Words spelling game for children, 1/2
|AWCMP2.ZIP    B  346621  920623  Animated Words spelling game for children, 2/2
|AZMATH1.ZIP   B  469655  920914  Pre-Calculus/Calculus math review
|BABYDRAW.ZIP  B  179651  901203  Simple drawing program for children
|CAPFUN.ZIP    B   31360  920314  DEMO: prog. teaches sentence capitalization
|CGP20.ZIP     B   68288  911006  Children's Graphics Paint program, v2.0
|CIBOX.ZIP     B   72616  870926  Good math educ. game for kids GR 3-6, C/G req.
|CLOCKGAM.ZIP  B   14718  900120  Teach clock to 3-5 year old children
|COLORBK.ZIP   B  121083  920427  EGA Coloring Cook for kids, w/mouse support
|CORWP30.ZIP   B  109420  911119  CoreWar Pro: Redcode program vs program battle
|DANFIRST.ZIP  B   79290  920825  Teachs children alphabet/music/computer keybd
|DRILL.ZIP     B   12443  870531  A school teacher for your kids
|DROIDS10.ZIP  B  127271  920629  Learn to program droids in BASIC. Need CGA/EGA
|FUNNELS.ZIP   B   43349  891118  FUNNELS & BUCKETS arithmetic game for children
|FWLAW.ZIP     B  100383  900119  Fun w/Letters & Words,educational game,age 2-6
|GEO-MATH.ZIP  B  129982  900903  Math tutor for grades 1-6. Includes BASIC src
|GRADES27.ZIP  B  138627  911021  Course grades/scores/GPA calc/grade prediction
|GRAND.ZIP     B  152288  920914  Tutorial on Unified Field Theory
|GSH200.ZIP    B  214436  920831  Gradebook program for college/university
|HACKTST3.ZIP  B   27210  920406  Program to administer the infamous Hacker test
|KIDSWP.ZIP    B   17575  870914  Shareware Child's Word Processor
|LETTERFA.ZIP  B   36104  891118  Falling letters game, children's typing tutor
|LTBLIT31.ZIP  B  119608  920512  Potato late blight management game for Windows
|MARKV13.ZIP   B   57734  911025  Mark V. Shaney, text paraphraser
|MATHEASY.ZIP  B  218351  920708  Math tutor, add/subtract/multiply/divide. EGA
|MATHER.ZIP    B   53718  920107  Moraff's math for prizes educational game
|MATHSHOP.ZIP  B   51581  870625  Math/arithmetic drills
|MATHWO.ZIP    B  353233  920526  MathWorkout 1.0: Arithmetic drill for all ages
|MAZE2A.ZIP    B   57225  890712  Generate/solve mazes on your PC, w/TC2.0 src
|MBLDIV10.ZIP  B  101376  910802  CGA Long Division Tutor with a new 'twist'
|MBMULT10.ZIP  B  136832  910802  Math education: Multiplication trainer
|MCASTLE.ZIP   B  123211  910522  Math Castle: Math-based adventure game
|MEDTUTOR.ZIP  B   76985  920914  Medical terminology tutorial
|MEMMASTR.ZIP  B  141088  901013  Improve your memory with this educational pgm
|MINICOMP.ZIP  B   46193  920914  Elementary computer math tutor for children
|MOMS358.ZIP   B  121465  920121  Game teaches music/art/spelling/english/math
|NTUMIN10.ZIP  B  298901  920505  Logic minimization pgm from NTU, w/TC2.0 src
|ORIGAMI.ZIP   B  147597  880304  Make paper figures
|OTD_11.ZIP    B  121594  911219  Tells what happened 'On This Day' in history
|PCFTYP41.ZIP  B  178782  911209  PC-FASTYPE/CGA v4.1 typing tutorial (ASP)
|PEN2MINO.ZIP  B   25762  901226  Game:Put 12 shapes of 5 squares into rectangle
|PFIVE.ZIP     B  167268  920720  Point Five quantitative data analysis/modeling
|PLDIAG11.ZIP  B  559278  920908  PD game for teaching plant disease diagnosis
|PLNTGRO1.ZIP  B  511873  920921  Describing and predicting the growth of plants
|PRESQUIZ.BQS  B    5376  861011  Quiz on U.S. Presidents. Written in BASIC
|PWERSQR1.ZIP  B   28480  910605  Makes squares, sides multiply to same product
|RECALL1.ZIP   B  154218  911209  Shareware vers of Total Recall educational pgm
|ROO10.ZIP     B   89453  920207  Advanced animated LOGO-like environment (EGA)
|RSISTN62.ZIP  B  127436  920512  Fungicide resistance mgmt. game for Windows
|RUSEN125.ZIP  B  238237  911211  Russian-English on-line dictionary (TSR)
|SGNLS10.ZIP   B  136234  920626  Illustrates signal processing concepts w/plots
|SM2.ZIP       B   91354  920312  Learning tool; automated repetitave study
|SM97_10X.ZIP  B   85015  920514  Philips/Fluke ScopeMeter 97 setup/data utils
|SPELL110.ZIP  B  192265  900403  SPELLBOUND! - spelling tutor package
|SPELLING.ZIP  B   39295  900425  Tutorial/exercises for h.s., college learners
|STRING.ZIP    B   41274  870222  Math game w/VENN diagrams & sets
|TANDBACK.ZIP  B  111872  920716  Increases skills of getting from here to there
|TORG310.ZIP   B  172682  920421  Organic chemistry ID of unknowns simulator
|TP-ET.ZIP     B  115774  911209  Thumb Print Software's Electric Typewriter
|TRACER01.ZIP  B   70981  920719  Game: Draw figures in minumum # of pen traces
|TSGAME12.ZIP  B   44319  890727  T.Salmi: First package of educational games
|TSGMEB15.ZIP  B   80345  910811  T.Salmi: Second package of educational games
|TSGMEC11.ZIP  B   82460  900818  T.Salmi: Third package of educational games
|TSGMED12.ZIP  B   82644  920526  Learn national flags as a game, T.Salmi
|TSGMEE10.ZIP  B   71674  901216  T.Salmi: 5th pkg of educational games, EGA req
|TURING10.ZIP  B   26375  920604  Turing Machine simulator with C source
|TYPDOS40.ZIP  B   56398  920530  Beginner's type-it quiz to MsDos with 66 tasks
|TYPDR11.ZIP   B   17906  900912  TypeDrill: Improve typing skills, w/TP src
|TYPEFAST.ZIP  B   91532  900912  TypeFast: Game stresses typing speed, w/C src
|WNG.ZIP       B   87267  910523  World Name Game: educational - guess capitals
|WORDGEN1.ZIP  B   98480  920430  Mega Mind Maze 1: Amazing word game for GENIUS
|WORDWIZ.ZIP   B   32277  870703  Hangman-like spelling game. Simple graphics
|WRDGLRY.ZIP   B  147908  900110  Match words with pictures, children ages 4-7
|WRDLK11B.ZIP  B   63084  910525  WordLock: Menu-driven crossword puzzle builder
|
|============================================================================
|
|There are a few  good shareware educational games.
|Apogee has done 1 or 2 recently
|and Epic has done one. Graphics and sound are very good.
|
|Check ftp.ulowell.edu in msdos/Games/Apogee and msdos/Games/Epic
|
|============================================================================
|
|It's me again.
|
|In comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard you write:
|
|>I am thinking of getting a sound card (Treehouse from Broderbund, which I
|>gave to my daughter for Christmas, requires it).  I can get a Micro Concepts
|>2.0+ Sound Blaster clone for $85 or $95 with speakers and a mic.  
|
|>Is that a good deal?  Are clones really clones, or is it best to stick 
|>with the name brand?  Should I get the speakers and mic for the extra $10, 
|>or is it best to get them from a separate source?  Are there other cards I
|>could be looking at?
|
|I can't comment on the quality of the clones.  As far as the mic goes, 
|the one you would get is probably worthless.  I bought a mic for $20,
|and it records my kids ok, but my not my voice (I assume because it's
|lower).  I tried a cheaper mic originally, and it wasn't sensitive
|enough.  My kids had to shout to be recorded.
|
|>I don't want to buy a sound card for one game (which has other problems).
|>Besides zoom and shoot games, what are sound cards good for?  I can think
|>of only two reasons I would want one: CAE of Music/Musical Instruments,
|>and other general educational games (like Treehouse).
|
|I mentioned in my previous message the use of the soundcard with KidDesk.
|In some education games, all the sound card does is play music. In others,
|it uses voice to aid in the teaching -- especially good at the age
|when they are first starting to learn how to read.  One thing that
|you want to make sure of with a sounblaster clone is that it emulates
|all of a Soundblaster's functions.  I believe some do music but not
|speech.  
|
|I have found that getting a soundcard was well worth it.  My kids get a lot 
|more enjoyment out of the computer, to the point where it's hard for me to kick
|them off so I can use it.
|
|Also, in the future, multimedia educational programs are will be more available,
|which is a good reason to get a Soundblaster Pro.  A recent PC Magazine
|article reviewed some of the cd-rom programs which are currently available.
|
|The only other use of a soundcard that I have found is to entertain my
|compu-phobic wife.  Whenever she starts Lotus, she hears 10 seconds of
|the theme from Twilight Zone.
|
|============================================================================
|
|In article <2520030@stimpy.CND.HP.COM> you write:
|>I am looking for a source of information on educational games for
|>kids (for 386 IBM PC clones).  
|>
|>I bought Treehouse from Broderbund and am very disappointed.  But before 
|>I exchange it, I'd like to bone up on the educational games market.
|>
|>1) Are there any magazines/news letters which review educational games 
|>	(CU, Parents, PC rags, etc.)?
|>
|
|PC Magazing has an "After Hours" section but it is focused more on
|general games than kids' software.  I'm not aware of anything which
|more directly addresses this market.  I'm a writer and father of a
|toddler and approached Parents with the idea of a "Kids and Computers"
|column and was told they weren't interested.  I've decided to try it
|as a newsletter and am in the process of putting one together.  If you
|are interested, drop me a line with a mailing address and I'll send
|you a sample when it's ready.  I'll need critiques and if you like it,
|I hope you'll subscribe.  (Also, if you find that such a publication
|exists (and I'd have competition) I'd appreciate hearing about it.)
|
|
|>Brian Atkins
|>
|>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|>Brian Atkins		atkins@cnd.hp.com			(303) 229-2114
|>Hewlett-Packard (MS102) 3404 E. Harmony Road, Ft. Collins, CO	80525-9599
|
|============================================================================
|
|>I am looking for a source of information on educational games for
|>kids (for 386 IBM PC clones).  
|>I bought Treehouse from Broderbund and am very disappointed.  But before 
|>I exchange it, I'd like to bone up on the educational games market.
|>
|>1) Are there any magazines/news letters which review educational games 
|>	(CU, Parents, PC rags, etc.)?
|
|	 Computer Gaming World just started a spinoff magazine called Kids &
|Computers which you should be able to find on the newsstand.  If you want
|to subscribe, their number is 1-800-827-4450.
|
|>2) Are there any mailing lists and/or notes groups where this type of
|>	information is discussed (there are a dozen or so permutations
|>	of "games.ibm.pc" notes groups, and rather than try them all,
|>	I'd like a pointer)?
|
|	 I don't know of any.  Also, I don't think they've split up the
|comp.sys.ibm.pc.games group, so the traffic is still pretty heavy there.
|	 BTW, what do you need to know about these games?  I work with a mail-
|order retailer who specializes in games and educational software.
|
|============================================================================
|
|If you discover anything, I would be very interested in hearing about it
|(although I suspect my children are younger).  
|For younger children 3-5 the following are fairly good.
|Snoopy's Game Club by Accolade - concentration, matching, and jigsaw
|Learn the Alphabet by Top Class - various matching games, car race, others
|Memory Games by Top Class - concentration, quick identification, satelite game
|Playroom by Broderbund? - nice except that it requires a key disk
|
|ok
|Learn to Count by Top Class - similar to their alphabet game but greatly lacking
|Reader Rabbit I by The Learning Company -may teach reading if the kids will play
|
|bad
|Mickeys ABC - hit a letter something happens (who cares)
|
|feel free to distribute this to anyone who is interested or post it if
|their is a lot of interest
|
|--
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Wayne S. Mery           Systems Programmer      Lehigh University Computing Ctr
|WSM0@Lehigh.edu  (Unix)                         LUWSM@IBM1.cc.lehigh.edu  (VM)
|

	===================================================================
	
	WSM0@Lehigh.edu  (Wayne S. Mery ) forwarded *LOTS* of material
	that has been included in this synopeis. He also sent me the
	following:

	Steve,

	Forgot one more thing which SHOULD be an excellent source, and 
	now I've thought of another.

	1) The k12.  hierarchy    (I can't get it here, wish we had it)
	2) There are are few educational software BBSes, most notable ABC in CA.
	I'll get the phone number and get back to you.

	Wayne
	-----------------------------------------------------------------------
	Wayne S. Mery      Systems Programmer   Lehigh University Computing Ctr
	WSM0@Lehigh.edu  (Unix)                 LUWSM@IBM1.cc.lehigh.edu  (VM)

	================================================================

	Last but not least, kevint@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Kevin J. Taddeucci)
	passed this along:

	I found this on another group:

	John Meissen (puma.uucp!john@becca.rain.com) wrote:

	> I'm trying to locate any applications, especially games and paint
	> programs, that might be more suitable for raw beginners.
	> 
	> Recommendations for anything, commercial or PD, would be welcome.


	The best Amiga program for 2-6 year olds I have seen is Amy's Fun-2-3 
	Adventure from Devasoft (408-927-9645). It requires 1Meg of ram to run 
	though. There is a demo avialable from any Aminet ftp site. It's named
	Fun-2-3-demo.lha. Sorry I can't remember the path. 

	The following is a clip from one of the ReadMe files which comes 
	with the demo:

	 Devasoft is unleashing the first in its lineup of new educational 
	 programs for young minds.  AMY'S FUN-2-3 ADVENTURE is the premier 
	 title to be released in a planned series of programs whose target 
	 audience is in the 2 to 6 year old age group.  Each title will star 
	 a cute, playful little puppy named Amy, who helps make learning 
	 more fun and exciting.
	 
	 In Amy's Fun-2-3 Adventure, Amy introduces children to numbers and
	 counting by taking them through a variety of entertaining activities.  
	 In much the same way as a quality video game is presented, each 
	 activity employs great graphics and smooth, detailed animation to 
	 get its point across.  Digitized speech and sound effects further 
	 enhance learning and play action, making the program a joy for 
	 children to use.
	 
	   ----------------------------- ------------------------------------
	  | Kevin J. Taddeucci          | e-mail: kevint@hpsad.sad.hp.com    |
	  | Hewlett Packard Firmware QA | HPDesk: Kevin TADDEUCCI /HP5300/A0 |
	  | Telnet: 794-4192            | HP Mailstop: 2LR-N                 | 
	   ----------------------------- ------------------------------------

	================= END OF SYNOPSIS ==============================


----------------------------------------
Steve Rosen     rosen@cbnewsb.cb.att.com
                      srosen@attmail.com
                          attmail!srosen
----------------------------------------