🚀 go-pugleaf

Michael Adams <madams@atlcom.net> wrote:

>pduffy@d.umn.edu wrote:
>>

>> Hmm. I've heard numerous stories of scalpers selling LOTS of N64's in
>> newspaper classifieds. It's just speculation, but I think the shortage
>> -Snipped- 

>OK.  You (and Patrick, etc.) make a good point.  You notice in all of my
>posts I have not applied the scalping issue because I'm not sure it's
>completely applicable in the N64 case.  But, if what you say is true:

>In certain cities, what we may have is an oligopoly (not a monopoly). 
>An oligopoly exists when a few sellers control the supply of the
>product.  These sellers COLLUDE (very important) with each other in
>order to keep the price of the product artificially high.  The best
>example I can think of off the top of my head would be the oil cartels
>of the Middle East.

I see what you're saying. It's similiar to how gas station companies
like Shell/Amoco etc... get together and raise the prices in a certain
area. Seems like that's happening in my town. My town pays some of the
highest gas prices in the whole dang state, if not in most of the
nation.

>If indeed oligopolies exist due to the fact that their are only a few
>sellers selling N64s, then we do have a problem.  Oligopolies, like
>monopolies, are an obvious threat to Capitalism/competition and
>therefore I am personally against them.  That being said, I have a few
>problems with stating the N64 situation is oligopolistic (or
>monopolistic, for that matter):

>1) Most ads I've seen are kids/adults selling one.  I could be off-base,
>but I haven't seen very many scalpers here in Atlanta, where there is
>indeed a shortage.

In my town [Which isn't very large], there are people posting
classifieds selling a few each. I guess that's not too much, but I've
heard scalping has hit an all-time high town in the Twin Cities, MN. I
guess the Mall of America down there got hit by scalpers. 

>2) Collusion among sellers should be occuring.  I don't see that partly
>due to the huge discrepancy of prices ($200-$1000).  IMO, it seems that
>the market (ie natural supply/demand curve) is dictating the price more
>than the seller is.  In particular, the buyers seem to be overpaying in
>many cases due to laziness and stupidity (and the inability to wait). It
>is still possible (in Atlanta) to get a N64 for list price.  It takes a
>bit of effort, however.

Yeah, most buyers seem too impatient and just decide to pay the
outrageous prices. However, this creates a problem where everyone else
wanting a N64 won't be able to afford one. So I guess _all_ of the
fault cannot be blamed on scalpers alone...

>> Well, unlike grapes, it's uniformly easy to produce N64's at ANY time
>> -Snipped-

>OK.  I made the grapes reference, and true, that is seasonal, so let me
>make another one.  Do you remember how much you paid for RAM a couple of
>years back?  A heck of a lot more than today - because materials were
>more expensive. The cost/availability of raw materials often fluctuates
>up and down. Why do you think Nintendo is having problems meeting
>demand?

Well, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Howard Lincoln
stated that the slow production rate of N64's has been due to the
expense in making the microprocessors. So I can sort of see where
you're coming from. However, that was an initial problem that occurred
before the Japanese launch back in early June. If ya ask me, I think
Nintendo is holding back on shipping out N64's. See what it's doing?
It's really stirring up a frenzy for the system. Rather than releasing
a steady flow of systems to retail outlets, they're waiting for demand
to hit an all-time high. They'll probably then release a few
hundred-thousand systems with a strong marketing campaign in
January[Plenty of N64 games come out that month]. I dunno...it's just
speculation, but it seems like Nintendo would sell more systems that
way.  

>> 1.) Most of the N64 scalpers KNEW their was going to be a shortage.
>> Nintendo probably didn't release enough N64's for the X-mas season in
>> the first place, and scalpers just came and gobbled a majority of
>> them.

>I don't know about this.  If they did, they're pretty smart.  Did you
>know in November the shortage would be as bad as it is?  I remember
>reading several stories that Nintendo would meet the demand.  There is
>such a fine line between scalping and good business sense.

Well, considering that the system was selling really well in November,
it's easy  to see that the Japanese shipment of 500,000 units was
running low in America. At this point, it's easy to see that Nintendo
misjudged the immense demand for their product since it wasn't even
X-mas yet. The chances of Nintendo being able to release another
shipment of a few hundred-thousand before X-mas seemed pretty
unlikely. The resulting situation is a market with shrinking amount of
N64's and a growing amount of demand. I dunno...that seems like a
pretty good opportunity for a scalper. 

>> I know this could be totally wrong, but why do you think they made
>> scalping concert/sports tickets illegal? It's because everyone knows
>> there's a SET amount, thus scalpers can buy up the tickets causing a
>> shortage and can easilly raise the price. The same applies to certain
>> "special" X-mas gifts each year, but the government just hasn't made
>> it illegal. The SET amount really isn't known, but scalpers usually go
>> after the products that WON'T be coming out truckload after truckload
>> during the holiday season. See what I'm saying? Oh well....

>See above...a dangerous game, to say the least.

True...but I think it'd be pretty easy for any scalper to see that
Nintendo wouldn't be able to get truckloads of N64's out before X-mas
to meet the demand. 

>I agree 100%.  I was just looking through my old cards.  There weren't a
>million different rookie cards or holograms or whatnot.  You bought the
>cards to try to get your favorite players (Dale Murphy :) ). Value was
>secondary.  Sigh...  The same thing has happened with comic books.  Buy
>4 copies of 4 covers of this collectors' comic! You can't take it out of
>the bag to read the story because then it'll be worthless!  Sheesh.  I
>liked the stories.  I can't argue against what has happened, but it can
>be sad...

Yeah, the baseball card market is just sad. You know how bad it is
when you DON'T even open a box of cards because it's worth more that
way. I think the same is happening in the comic book market.  :)

>> Well, I feel it's safe to say that practically ever retailer has set
>> the price of the N64 to $199.99. There could be a few small stores
>> selling it for $205.99 or something, but those are rare occurences.

>I believe I saw FAO Schwartz selling them for 229...

Hmm, I stand corrected. However, don't ya think it's fair to say that
the major retailors are the one's that are relevant? A place in my
mall that sells cards was selling N64's for 219.99. I really don't
think they even affect the market since they're not selling many.

>> 
>> As far as scalping goes...it depends where you live. Some cities have
>> been struck by scalpers BIGTIME...others haven't been touched.

>If we break the natural supply/demand curve to please a few
>kids/parents, who knows where it would end? Personally, I don't want the
>government telling me how much I can sell something I OWN.  This is the
>underlying basis of my argument.  I apologize if this seems to lack
>ethics and morals to you.

I really don't know what to say. :)
I agree the capitalism should remain absolute, but its pitfalls seem
to become magnified ten times over during the winter holiday season.
The scum of America seems to ooze out of the cracks, and kids end up
being the victims. I think it's fair to say that capitalism is fine
the way it is, but societal values need a MAJOR adjustment. =]

>As another person stated, why are so many people upset about this but
>you see hardly any negative responses to copiers, black-market goods,
>etc.?

I think everyone is upset with these bastards, but the government and
corporate America are on our side since those operations are illegal.
When it comes to scalping, it's just the consumer versus the scalper.
In this case, the government and corporations probably don't give a
damn. I guess a lot of people just feel helpless because scalping
items like N64's is legal. 

  These people are much more unscrupulous than anyone selling N64s
>over MSRP.  But in these cases, big, faceless corporations are the ones
>being hurt.  Nobody cares about them.  But kids, that's another story...

Kids are the treasure of America. :)
See what happens when a parent kills his/her child? They're TOAST! =]
Whenever a kid become a victim, America is there to jump all over the
offender. It's the American way. ;)

>-Mike