🚀 go-pugleaf

In md.general Lemar Allison <allison@nospam.com> wrote:
: If an adult touched a 14 year old they would be accused of
: harming an "innocent minor" but now that "innocent minor" is

He is acused of taking  part in a conspriracy to lure an "adult 
entertainer" to a friend's home to beat and molest her and he is 
"innocent"? ( In the "innocent as a child" sense. )

: accused of committing an adult crime! Make up your minds.

Nothing to makeup. This is a long-standing judicial procedure.
It was just recently done to one of the snipers. Where have
you been?

The only reason a child is not punished as an adult is that 
they are presumed not to be able to tell right from wrong. In
heinous cases where it can be shown that they did, they can
be tried as adults.

: Can a 14 year old be a brutal attacker? Which is it?

Duh. 7 and 8 year olds, and I'm sure younger, have beaten
younger children TO DEATH. 

: What would be appropriate punishment?

Hitting him in the head with a baseball bat? But I'm
sure if he's from anywhere near Bethesda, he'll get 
a high-priced lawyer who'll paint the victim as a 
lowlife who got what was coming to her, and his client 
as a poor youth who's friends did it all while he was 
elsewhere, probably doing charity work. 

In the end he'll probably get off with just counseling
which it looks like the other kids lawyer in jockeying
for.

: Lemar Allison
: Bethesda, Md.
: ---------------------------------------------------

: Md. Boy, 14, Also Charged As Adult in Assault Case 

: By Monte Reel and Ruben Castaneda
: Washington Post Staff Writers
: Sunday, November 17, 2002; Page C01 

: The Bethesda subdivision of $600,000 townhouses and leafy 
: courtyards is a tranquil counterpoint to the brutality alleged 
: to have occurred there this month: the sexual assault of an 
: "adult entertainer" by three Walt Whitman High School students 
: who police said lured her to the house with an offer to make 
: an adult video.

: Montgomery County police said the three students -- ages 14, 15 
: and 19 -- skipped class on the morning of Nov. 8 and lured a 
: 25-year-old woman from an escort service to one of the students' 
: homes in Bethesda. When the woman arrived, they beat her with a 
: baseball bat, attempted to cover her mouth with a cloth that 
: emitted a "medicinal odor," then sexually assaulted her with 
: the bat and another object, police said.

: Ryan Howard Baird, 14, of the 12200 block of Village Square Terrace in
: Rockville, was arrested at school Friday and charged as an adult with
: first-degree sex offense, conspiracy to commit first-degree sex offense
: and armed robbery. 

: Also charged as adults with multiple counts of robbery and 
: assault are Andrew Geoffrey Klepper, 15, and Young Jiung Song, 
: 19. One law enforcement source said yesterday that Klepper was 
: charged as an adult because of the violent nature of the attack 
: and the role that authorities believe he played in it. 

: Police said the students got the woman's number from an Internet 
: ad and told her they were adult video producers who wanted to 
: offer her a job. When the woman entered Klepper's mother's 
: residence shortly before noon, police said, the three students 
: hit her in the head with a bat, tried to put the cloth to her 
: mouth, took her cell phone and keys and threatened her with a 
: knife. They proceeded to sexually assault her with the bat and 
: another object, police and prosecutors said.

: Police said that the woman called to report the attack at 5 
: p.m. that day. She was treated at Shady Grove Adventist Hospital 
: and released.

: Authorities said they believe Klepper placed the phone call 
: inviting the woman to his home. The woman described the house 
: and items inside it to investigators, police said.

: Klepper, a sophomore, was charged with first-degree sex offense,
: conspiracy to commit a first-degree sex offense, armed robbery and
: conspiracy to commit armed robbery. People at his house declined to
: speak with a reporter yesterday.

: Song, a senior who lives in Cabin John, was charged with armed 
: robbery, conspiracy to commit armed robbery and first-degree 
: assault. His family could not be located for comment yesterday. 
: Klepper and Song spent Thursday night in the county jail.

: Klepper's parents posted $50,000 cash bond, and he was released 
: Friday on the condition that he stay away from the woman. Song 
: remains in jail, and his bond review is scheduled for Monday. 
: Baird was being held last night at the Montgomery County 
: Detention Center. 

: Paul F. Kemp, the attorney for Klepper, declined to discuss 
: the charges yesterday but said he will seek to have his client 
: tried in juvenile court.

: "The case really deserves to be there," he said.

: Kemp said he would file a waiver seeking to have the case 
: returned to juvenile court after the indictment is handed up, 
: likely next month. The request will trigger an investigation 
: by the Department of Juvenile Justice, which considers the nature 
: of the crime and the defendant's age, mental and physical 
: condition and his amenability to treatment.

: A hearing on the issue is likely in February, Kemp said.

: The residential development where the alleged crime occurred 
: is tucked off River Road in Bethesda just north of the Capital 
: Beltway. 

: News of the charges was slow to circulate through the school 
: system after police announced the arrests Friday. Several 
: students and teachers at the Bethesda school hadn't heard of 
: the incident when contacted yesterday.

: "I've gotten a couple calls, and I'm sure the parents are very
: concerned," said Lafe Solomon, co-president of the school's 
: Parent Teacher Association. "I think they all realize it's a 
: horrific incident, but it's also isolated."

: Song was listed in last year's yearbook as a member of the 
: Korea Club. Klepper transferred to Whitman this year, according 
: to a teacher.

: Klepper had tried out for a school production of the musical 
: "42nd Street," which is scheduled to debut this week.

: "He originally was cast -- he made the ensemble -- but then he 
: decided not to do it," said Chris Kosmaceski, a music teacher at
: Whitman.
: -----------------------------------------
: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64976-2002Nov16.html

Lemar Allison wrote:
> 
> If an adult touched a 14 year old they would be accused of
> harming an "innocent minor" but now that "innocent minor" is
> accused of committing an adult crime! Make up your minds.
> Can a 14 year old be a brutal attacker? Which is it?
> What would be appropriate punishment?
> 
> Lemar Allison
> Bethesda, Md.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Md. Boy, 14, Also Charged As Adult in Assault Case
> 
> By Monte Reel and Ruben Castaneda
> Washington Post Staff Writers
> Sunday, November 17, 2002; Page C01
> 
> The Bethesda subdivision of $600,000 townhouses and leafy
> courtyards is a tranquil counterpoint to the brutality alleged
> to have occurred there this month: the sexual assault of an
> "adult entertainer" by three Walt Whitman High School students
> who police said lured her to the house with an offer to make
> an adult video.
> 
> Montgomery County police said the three students -- ages 14, 15
> and 19 -- skipped class on the morning of Nov. 8 and lured a
> 25-year-old woman from an escort service to one of the students'
> homes in Bethesda. When the woman arrived, they beat her with a
> baseball bat, attempted to cover her mouth with a cloth that
> emitted a "medicinal odor," then sexually assaulted her with
> the bat and another object, police said.
> 
> Ryan Howard Baird, 14, of the 12200 block of Village Square Terrace in
> Rockville, was arrested at school Friday and charged as an adult with
> first-degree sex offense, conspiracy to commit first-degree sex offense
> and armed robbery.
> 
> Also charged as adults with multiple counts of robbery and
> assault are Andrew Geoffrey Klepper, 15, and Young Jiung Song,
> 19. One law enforcement source said yesterday that Klepper was
> charged as an adult because of the violent nature of the attack
> and the role that authorities believe he played in it.
> 
> Police said the students got the woman's number from an Internet
> ad and told her they were adult video producers who wanted to
> offer her a job. When the woman entered Klepper's mother's
> residence shortly before noon, police said, the three students
> hit her in the head with a bat, tried to put the cloth to her
> mouth, took her cell phone and keys and threatened her with a
> knife. They proceeded to sexually assault her with the bat and
> another object, police and prosecutors said.
> 
> Police said that the woman called to report the attack at 5
> p.m. that day. She was treated at Shady Grove Adventist Hospital
> and released.
> 
> Authorities said they believe Klepper placed the phone call
> inviting the woman to his home. The woman described the house
> and items inside it to investigators, police said.
> 
> Klepper, a sophomore, was charged with first-degree sex offense,
> conspiracy to commit a first-degree sex offense, armed robbery and
> conspiracy to commit armed robbery. People at his house declined to
> speak with a reporter yesterday.
> 
> Song, a senior who lives in Cabin John, was charged with armed
> robbery, conspiracy to commit armed robbery and first-degree
> assault. His family could not be located for comment yesterday.
> Klepper and Song spent Thursday night in the county jail.
> 
> Klepper's parents posted $50,000 cash bond, and he was released
> Friday on the condition that he stay away from the woman. Song
> remains in jail, and his bond review is scheduled for Monday.
> Baird was being held last night at the Montgomery County
> Detention Center.
> 
> Paul F. Kemp, the attorney for Klepper, declined to discuss
> the charges yesterday but said he will seek to have his client
> tried in juvenile court.
> 
> "The case really deserves to be there," he said.
> 
> Kemp said he would file a waiver seeking to have the case
> returned to juvenile court after the indictment is handed up,
> likely next month. The request will trigger an investigation
> by the Department of Juvenile Justice, which considers the nature
> of the crime and the defendant's age, mental and physical
> condition and his amenability to treatment.
> 
> A hearing on the issue is likely in February, Kemp said.
> 
> The residential development where the alleged crime occurred
> is tucked off River Road in Bethesda just north of the Capital
> Beltway.
> 
> News of the charges was slow to circulate through the school
> system after police announced the arrests Friday. Several
> students and teachers at the Bethesda school hadn't heard of
> the incident when contacted yesterday.
> 
> "I've gotten a couple calls, and I'm sure the parents are very
> concerned," said Lafe Solomon, co-president of the school's
> Parent Teacher Association. "I think they all realize it's a
> horrific incident, but it's also isolated."
> 
> Song was listed in last year's yearbook as a member of the
> Korea Club. Klepper transferred to Whitman this year, according
> to a teacher.
> 
> Klepper had tried out for a school production of the musical
> "42nd Street," which is scheduled to debut this week.
> 
> "He originally was cast -- he made the ensemble -- but then he
> decided not to do it," said Chris Kosmaceski, a music teacher at
> Whitman.
> -----------------------------------------
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64976-2002Nov16.html

he's a violent criminal and always will be. he's in adult jail
where he belongs.

I come from a place where it's not unheard of to find a 1st grader
committing sexual assault.  When they're 7 it's pretty much directly
traceable to thier parents being abusive unfit parents or to some sort
of disorder.  When they start hitting their teens, though, it's a grey
area.  Things aren't so cut and dry anymore.

Susan

On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:55:16 -0500, Lemar Allison <allison@nospam.com>
wrote:

>If an adult touched a 14 year old they would be accused of
>harming an "innocent minor" but now that "innocent minor" is
>accused of committing an adult crime! Make up your minds.
>Can a 14 year old be a brutal attacker? Which is it?
>What would be appropriate punishment?
>
>Lemar Allison
>Bethesda, Md.
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>Md. Boy, 14, Also Charged As Adult in Assault Case 
>
>By Monte Reel and Ruben Castaneda
>Washington Post Staff Writers
>Sunday, November 17, 2002; Page C01 
>
>The Bethesda subdivision of $600,000 townhouses and leafy 
>courtyards is a tranquil counterpoint to the brutality alleged 
>to have occurred there this month: the sexual assault of an 
>"adult entertainer" by three Walt Whitman High School students 
>who police said lured her to the house with an offer to make 
>an adult video.
>
>Montgomery County police said the three students -- ages 14, 15 
>and 19 -- skipped class on the morning of Nov. 8 and lured a 
>25-year-old woman from an escort service to one of the students' 
>homes in Bethesda. When the woman arrived, they beat her with a 
>baseball bat, attempted to cover her mouth with a cloth that 
>emitted a "medicinal odor," then sexually assaulted her with 
>the bat and another object, police said.
>
>Ryan Howard Baird, 14, of the 12200 block of Village Square Terrace in
>Rockville, was arrested at school Friday and charged as an adult with
>first-degree sex offense, conspiracy to commit first-degree sex offense
>and armed robbery. 
>
>Also charged as adults with multiple counts of robbery and 
>assault are Andrew Geoffrey Klepper, 15, and Young Jiung Song, 
>19. One law enforcement source said yesterday that Klepper was 
>charged as an adult because of the violent nature of the attack 
>and the role that authorities believe he played in it. 
>
>Police said the students got the woman's number from an Internet 
>ad and told her they were adult video producers who wanted to 
>offer her a job. When the woman entered Klepper's mother's 
>residence shortly before noon, police said, the three students 
>hit her in the head with a bat, tried to put the cloth to her 
>mouth, took her cell phone and keys and threatened her with a 
>knife. They proceeded to sexually assault her with the bat and 
>another object, police and prosecutors said.
>
>Police said that the woman called to report the attack at 5 
>p.m. that day. She was treated at Shady Grove Adventist Hospital 
>and released.
>
>Authorities said they believe Klepper placed the phone call 
>inviting the woman to his home. The woman described the house 
>and items inside it to investigators, police said.
>
>Klepper, a sophomore, was charged with first-degree sex offense,
>conspiracy to commit a first-degree sex offense, armed robbery and
>conspiracy to commit armed robbery. People at his house declined to
>speak with a reporter yesterday.
>
>Song, a senior who lives in Cabin John, was charged with armed 
>robbery, conspiracy to commit armed robbery and first-degree 
>assault. His family could not be located for comment yesterday. 
>Klepper and Song spent Thursday night in the county jail.
>
>Klepper's parents posted $50,000 cash bond, and he was released 
>Friday on the condition that he stay away from the woman. Song 
>remains in jail, and his bond review is scheduled for Monday. 
>Baird was being held last night at the Montgomery County 
>Detention Center. 
>
>Paul F. Kemp, the attorney for Klepper, declined to discuss 
>the charges yesterday but said he will seek to have his client 
>tried in juvenile court.
>
>"The case really deserves to be there," he said.
>
>Kemp said he would file a waiver seeking to have the case 
>returned to juvenile court after the indictment is handed up, 
>likely next month. The request will trigger an investigation 
>by the Department of Juvenile Justice, which considers the nature 
>of the crime and the defendant's age, mental and physical 
>condition and his amenability to treatment.
>
>A hearing on the issue is likely in February, Kemp said.
>
>The residential development where the alleged crime occurred 
>is tucked off River Road in Bethesda just north of the Capital 
>Beltway. 
>
>News of the charges was slow to circulate through the school 
>system after police announced the arrests Friday. Several 
>students and teachers at the Bethesda school hadn't heard of 
>the incident when contacted yesterday.
>
>"I've gotten a couple calls, and I'm sure the parents are very
>concerned," said Lafe Solomon, co-president of the school's 
>Parent Teacher Association. "I think they all realize it's a 
>horrific incident, but it's also isolated."
>
>Song was listed in last year's yearbook as a member of the 
>Korea Club. Klepper transferred to Whitman this year, according 
>to a teacher.
>
>Klepper had tried out for a school production of the musical 
>"42nd Street," which is scheduled to debut this week.
>
>"He originally was cast -- he made the ensemble -- but then he 
>decided not to do it," said Chris Kosmaceski, a music teacher at
>Whitman.
>-----------------------------------------
>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64976-2002Nov16.html