🚀 go-pugleaf

Billy wrote:
> In article <RJKdnQNnjc9LbdPRnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>  mrmcafee <"(mrmcafee)nospam"@cox.net> wrote:
> 
>> Billy wrote:
>>> In article <0MCdnV4aebO2A9DRnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>>  mrmcafee <"(mrmcafee)nospam"@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jim wrote:
>>>>> Billy wrote:
>>>>> [....]
>>>>>> Misdirection again, away from the real criminals who are concentrated in
>>>>>> Washington D.C. and Wall Street, to the bread crumb sin variety, trying
>>>>>> to feed their families. Immigrants aren't $tealing trillion$ of dollar$,
>>>>>> folks. The people $tealing trillionS of dollar$ are investment bankers,
>>>>>> the military-industrial complex, and their "bought and paid" for
>>>>>> politicians in both parties, the Kleptocrats. Ain't nothin gonna change
>>>>>> without campaign-finance reform, re-installment of Glass-Steagall act,
>>>>>> and the sheep get off their asses and demand change. Otherwise,
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> - Billy
>>>>> but but but the sheepeople love their gubberment. 
>>>> We do. We much prefer it to the libertarian system employed in Somalia.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> lol
>>> Somalia has no central government, it is partitioned among warlord. 
>>> Whereas here, the central government is unified in its support for 
>>> corporations, and those who own stock in them.
>>
>> As well as support for unions and for Grandmas. Our government is the 
>> reason we can progress as a civilization. If you want to see the results 
>> of libertarian 
> Funny, my dictionary describes a libertarian as : a person who advocates 
> civil liberty


The way I used the term and the way we have been using it in these 
forums is as defined by the Libertarian Party of the USA. Their defining 
characteristic is (from their "Statement of Principles)

"We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion 
over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they 
choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right 
of others to live in whatever manner they choose."
http://tinyurl.com/2ahk5a2

They believe that each individual is sovereign. Anarchy.


> You don't support civil liberty? Hmmm.

Of course I do. I'm a Democrat.


> Odd. I don't remember ever 
> hearing tell of a libertarian government.

An impossibility.


> Bolivia under Evo Morales, 
> maybe.

I see you are very confused.


>> style political philosphy, look to Somalia. 
> Somalia, of course is an area, like Afghanistan that is ruled by 
> competing warlords. There almost an unity of government (Islamic Courts 
> Union), but it was one that was unacceptable to western powers, and it 
> wasn't allowed to unify the country because of the introduction of US 
> supported Kenyan and Ethiopian troops (land grabs don'cha' know)


Just more libertarian style rule. There is no government to restrain the 
powerful and protect the weak.


> 
>> Take a lesson
>> from Lebanon during the Eighties. 
>  Lebanon was twice invaded and occupied by the Israel Defense Forces 
> (IDF) in 1978 and 1982,[36] with the PLO expelled in the second 
> invasion. Israel remained in control of Southern Lebanon until 2000, 
> when there was a general decision, led by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud 
> Barak, to withdraw because of continuous attacks executed by Hezbollah, 
> and a belief that the violence would diminish and dissolve without the 
> Israeli presence in Lebanon.
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon#Civil_war_and_beyond>
> I'm sure we all remember the Israel bombing apartment house in Beirut. 
> The war was to install a pro western government, Israeli backed (US 
> supported) Shia/Maronite coalition, in opposition to the Sunnis.
> "The Israeli-Maronite alliance was shattered, and Sharon's goal of 
> installing a pro-Israel Christian government in Beirut was not 
> accomplished.[83] 850,000 Christians would emigrate during the Civil 
> War, most of them permanently."
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Lebanon_War>

During the civil war, government broke down to the point that only the 
powerful had any control over their lives and the weak were at their 
mercy. The predictable results of a libertarian non-government.


> 
> 
>> Everyplace government breaks down, 
>> anarchy takes place and freedom is gone except for the strong and the 
>> ruthless. 
> So, you're recommending colonial governments then, right?


No, I recommend chocolate ice cream.


>> There is a reason there are no communist nor libertarian 
>> societies of any size in the world. They are unnatural.
>> in Somalia
> 
> You really gibber a lot, don't you


Rather the other way 'round.