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whit_e@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (Whitney Elfner) writes:

>I think Backwoods home had the best article I have seen on the subject
>in the last issue. It included info on the system they used in rural
>Idaho? 

>Basically from your needs I would think you would want to go with a
>small diesel. maybe the small one from China with the importer with a
>good rep. I think the same unit can be had from a couple of importers
>but some have better reps on standing behind their equipment.

>Whit

The two importers I am familiar with are:

Mr. Hardy Day          Mr. Pete Peters
China Diesel Inc.      China Farm Machinery Inc.
619-669-1995           714-657-0379

No matter if you get a gas or a diesel, buy (for $10) the book "More
Power To You" from Backwoods Home - it will tell you more about
generators than you ever wanted to know.  And use an oversize radiator,
don't let your starting battery get too cold (or even freeze) and
_make sure you have a murphy switch on the generator_!!!!

>Marcel Burlet (marcel@ictv.com) wrote:

>: Since we live "in the country" by California standards (well, _not_
>: city water; septic system _not_ sewer; Electricty doesn't run all day,
>: every day), we are looking for a backup generator. (The thought of
>: waiting 2 or 3 days to 

What area of CA do you call home?

>: 1st criteria:
>: 	Gotta run the water pressure booster pump (1 hp, start
>: 	capacitor, 220V @ 15A breakers). My well guy says 3500watts
>: 	min, I'm thinking 5kw. ( we have a 5000 gal tank: we don't
>: 	need to run the well pump and the pressure pump at the same
>: 	time).

How often does it run, and for how long - i.e. what is the watt-hours
consumption of this load?

>: 2nd criteria:
>: 	RELIABLE! (Since the power hardly ever goes out when the sun is
>: 	shining on a warm and dry day).  I don't want to be out in the
>: 	rain swearing at the *#)($&@ generator, just so I can take a
>: 	warm shower. 

You _could_ have is start automatically, perhaps after 2 min without
power, and then after it warms up and stabilizes, automatically transfer
over.  You might be without lights for 5-6 min.  Just like a pilot never
flies a cold engine, if you want decent life out of your generator,
don't load it when it's cold.  And let it run under no-load for 5 min
before you shut it down.

>: Other criteria:
>: 	Should run on gasoline. Propane is available, but plumbing it
>: 	could be a problem.  I have no experience with diesel, but
>: 	that might be doable.

Why would plumbing propane be a problem?  Mechanically, the plumbing
is 99.9% the same as natural gas.  And a diesel engine is actualy
simpler than a gas engine.

>: 	Noise is not a big deal: it's going to be out back, away from
>: 	the rest of the house. Quieter is nicer, but if it's REALLY
>: 	LOUD, we'll just put it near this neighbor that .... :-)

Plan on putting a large muffler on the exhaust output of the generator.
Then put another muffler on the air intake!  It's amazing, but on some
engines, a surprising amount of noise comes out of the air intake.
One acquaintance ran the exhaust through a buried oil drum and cut the
noise by 2/3.

>: 	Should not cost more than my last new car! (that 20kv WINCO in
>: 	the paper was tempting, but my wife started saying "I don't
>: 	think so, Tim"!).

You get what you pay for.  Don't be blind to alternatives - you might
overlook a second hand Miller arc welder.  Most have a generator/welder
changeover switch.
And do you really want to make grid power and a generator your primary
power source?  A PV array, a good sized battery bank, a good charger
and a good inverter (or a charger/inverter combined unit) could let
you tell the power company goodbye.
A friend of mine picked up a "reefer" unit (the freezer/fridge) from the
front of a 40' semi-trailer.  The chiller had died.  The baby diesel engine
was just fine...  A 100 amp alternator and regulator from a junked motor
home was mated to it, and a 500ah Caterpillar bulldozer battery, and a Trace
120v inverter added up to a beautiful, cheap 12v dc & 120v ac electric
system for a cabin.  He can add a PV panel later if he wants to - it
would let him cut the generator use in half or maybe more.
Backwoods Home has several good articles in their 1st 2 year book and
their 3rd year book on solar, diesel generators, windmills, water
wheels, etc.  They also have a PV book: "The Solar Electric Independent
Home Book".

Books bought and read in advance are cheaper than a mistake made from
ignorance.

>: 	We will look into some sort of switchover/isolation relay
>: 	stuff, but we'll go manual for right now. How should I connect
>: 	this thing?

Find your local Onan dealer and get the 6-circuit tranfer panel.  It
is good quality, UL & CSA listed, is idiot proof, and will allow you
to have 6 seperate circuits in your house on either of two power
sources (grid or generator).  Note that you don't need every house
circuit on emergency power - the refrigerator, freezer, plus maybe
the bedrooms and bathrooms.  You can do without many things (the TV, the
toaster, etc.) for a short period of time...
Your cooking, space heating & water heater should not be electric.
Make sure you have a licensed electrician sign off on the transfer panel
installation, if you don't have him do the entire job.  An "unqualified"
installation could cost you your house, and then your homeowners & fire
insurance.
ABOVE ALL, DO NOT LET YOUR GENERATOR BACK-FEED THE POWER LINES FROM THE
GRID.  You could very easily damage your generator when the power comes
back on, or you could hurt a power company lineman who is trying
to restore your service, if not kill him.  You see, he's working on a
line that has no power on it - he knows he's killed the power from the
upstream side.  What he doesn't know is that you've got a generator that
is backfeeding to him.

>: Questions:
>: 	What brands are recommended? (Honda is good: Honda is
>: 	expen$ive).

Onan is just as bad.

>: 	What brands to avoid?
>: 	
>: 	I'm certain that Honda engines are good, but why do some
>: 	brands (e.g. generac, coleman, ...) cost so much less?? 


>: 	What features to look for? (e.g. How do I determine that the
>: 	generator will do a good job at maintaing voltage, put out
>: 	good 60hz, ...).

>: Thanks much in advance
>-- 
>          o      \       Torn Between             \  ______/ ___ \_____
>    ~  _ <<_     / 'All who wander are not lost'  / |       /   \      |
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>   ~  \_/ \_/    /    whit_e@freenet.fsu.edu      / |_______\___/______|                                             
-- 
Mike Morris   WA6ILQ   | This space intentionally left blank.
PO Box 1130            | 
Arcadia, CA. 91077     | All opinions must be my own since nobody pays
818-447-7052 evenings  | me enough to be their mouthpiece...