🚀 go-pugleaf

"Mapanari" <Mapi@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:xINu7.18248$Kp2.10696034@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
>
> | Ummm... none of those things are specific to the west.  Cleanliness is
> | something that most of the west gets low scores on, compared to many
eastern
> | cultures where cleanliness is held in much higher regard.
>
> Cleanliness is the hallmark of civiliazation, which is why the European,
> Japanese
> and other cultures that ascribe to those values are superiour in just
about
> every
> way to others that don't.
> Camel jockey's are not very clean.  Just ask one to eat with both hands.

You don't know much about their culture, do you?  On average, when they have
access to it, they bathe more than once a day - being clean is part of their
religion, instead of just a 20th century fad like in the west.  It took a
major marketing campaign by plumbing manufacturers just to get us to bathe
once a day.  Sounds a lot like people who called native americans "filthy",
because they lived outside - even though they took more care of themselves
than the people who called them that.

>  Organization is
> | non-specific in general.  Tilling soil - global, ditto irrigation (which
was
> | practically invented in that region).
>
> The people who live in the Euprhates valley are so genetically, culturally
> and socially difernet from the first farmers of 20,000 years ago that it's
> meaningless to try and compare them to the present day inhabitants.

Regardless... they do it... and some of their methods are more advanced than
what we employ, mostly out of neccessity.  You spoke as if they had no real
agriculture to speak of.

>   Equality for women is a different
> | matter - but then again, much of the west was incredibly slow to adopt
it
> | where other cultures embraced it early on.  Child sex toys -
imprisonable
> | here, executable there.  As for education, it's more a matter of what
than
> | how much.  The middle east has a history of education, and preserved
much of
> | what europe lost during the dark ages.  The primary difference is much
of
> | their education is theological whereas ours is secular.
>
> I could go into a 3 page long rebuttal of this point, but I fear it would
be
> useless, although interesting, but too time-consuming.
> Suffice it to point out who built the library of Alexandria and what
> civilization
> imparted the science of bibliography, cataloging and the whole concept of
> historical writing, research and compilation thereof.
>
> The fact that there concept drifted into the middle east through
greco/roman
> conquest and later Byzantine, makes the whole concept of learning,
schools,
> libraries and literature a greco/roman/eurpean concept and not a camel
jockey
> one.

The Greeks brought much of it in (though cataloging of data came to Athens
through Persia, as did many other organizational skills).  However, the
Greeks and Romans couldn't hold onto it when their civilizations collapsed -
it was arabs who not only maintained everything they could (the loss of The
Library was a harsh strike against that), but continued on - pushing further
into mathematics and the sciences (Euclid brought us geometry, but most
arithmetic, algebra, trigonometry, and some of the earliest stirrings of
what would lead to calculus, came from the middle east during the Pax
Islamica).

That region fell on hard times later, and all that changed - but history is
irrelevant.  My point is the things you originally mentioned as an attack
are not very well grounded.  The fact that the only part of that you really
responded to was historical doesn't prove your point much.  The closest you
came was treatment of women (they're way way behind in that area), and
education (they go futher into it than we do in some areas, but they dont'
exactly have any major universities with a global draw).

> It's nice to read parts of history, and whatever pc professor taught you
last,
> usually to denigrate "Dead white men history", but it doesn't make it so.

I've torn through a pretty good number of history books, particularly ones
that try not to hold any viewpoint at all.  I also like access to direct
archaeological data instead of other's interpretations of it.  I have no
intention of denigrating western culture - but I get a strong feeling that
you're either very highly biased towards it, are bigoted against particular
groups, or simply have a number of gaps in your history.  You aparently know
a lot, but you also sound like you're missing a lot - especially recent
history in that region.