🚀 go-pugleaf

Love-Hounds Digest			Saturday, May 24, 1986, 03:56 EDT

Topics:

			    Re: Roxy Romance
		     Video Question re KB (2 msgs)
			    synths and music
			The better part of valor
			      The Big Sky
			Kate and the commercial
		      KB & PG, and a Cure question
		  [davidl%tekgen.tek.csnet:  Clearly,]

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Sender: Paul Benjamin <Benjamin@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA>
Date:  Fri, 16 May 86 09:40 MST
From: Paul Benjamin <Benjamin%PCO@CISL-SERVICE-MULTICS.ARPA>
Subject:  Re: Roxy Romance

> Date:  Thursday, 15 May 1986 13:22 mst

> Really-From: ll-xn!uwvax!astroatc!gtaylor (oh...*Gregory* Taylor...never mind.)

> >God send my ANYONE who can relate to my "abnormal" daily fix
> >of Roxy Music &/or Bryan Ferry.  Jesus, I listen to Roxy soooo
> >much each and every year I have to replace albums.....Guess a
> >CD would be more practical, huh?

> Yes, I can, though my needs aren't daily. For all our whining about
> how wonderful Kate is, I'd be hard pressed to find any other single
> group of artists who so successfully redefined everything that came
> after them (like Diane Arbus' use of the 2 1/4" square photograph)
> quite apart from specific style (read "emphasis on style" and have
> so singularly changed the face of British popular music. With the
> exception of Paul MacCartney's old band. I guess that one could claim
> that the Sex Pistols fall into that category, but I feel that they're
> indicative of a trend rather than actually the original harbingers of
> it. That's a bad thing to say here in a Kate Bush newsgroup, I guess.

Not at all.

> Anyway, the Roxy CD is all it's cracked up to be, and clocks in at a
> great time. I've only the slightest argument with their concentration
> on "Flesh and Blood" period stuff, and the slightest argument with
> which Brian Ferry covers they chose, but hey. The canon ain't half
> bad, and most of the important work is all there.

What are you talking about?  There are, of course CDs of all of the Roxy
albums.  It sounded like you might have meant "Roxy Music - The Atlantic
Years", a rather confusing import that is mostly stuff from Avalon and
Flesh and Blood, plus Love is the Drug and The Strand, but you mentioned
Bryan Ferry covers.  This is something different.  Details, please.

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Date: 16 May 86 12:33:00 PST
From: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc.ARPA>
Subject: Video Question re KB
Reply-To: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc.ARPA>


Were there any other video releases from the Dreaming other than Suspended
in Gaffa.  More specifically, was there a video release of the title track?
Does anyone have information of any Laser Disk video releases of Kate's 
stuff?

John
------

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Date: 16 May 86 14:10:00 PST
From: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc.ARPA>
Subject: synths and music
Reply-To: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc.ARPA>


How can you overuse a musical instrument.  Those comments by Hofmann concerning
the proper amount opf synthesizer a piece should have are so absurd they are
hard to take seriously.  Hof, wouldn't you say that Chopin used a little
too much piano in most of his work, or maybe there was a little too much
brass in Herb Alpert's band?  Why should a synthesizer be treated any 
differently than conventional (older) musical instruments?  There hasn't
been a synthesist that I respect that has gone around trying to imitate
conventional instruments.  As to the comments about 'organ imitation' (not
to be confused with the organ imitation employed by heavy metal guitarists
with a sexual identification crisis) this is, I believe, a deplorable use
of ther instrument. 
The only multiphonic electronic kbd I ever owned was a Univox string synthesizerand it did only one thing, that's right, sounded like a phase modulated,
slightly distorted string section (when played properly, and its amazing how
misused that particular instrument was for about 6 years in the mid 70's).
When scoring a composition for an electronic music class at McGill, I penned
in 'PM-Strings' (phase modulated Univox), I was told by the lab assistant
'THERE IS NO SUCH INSTRUMENT AS STRINGS'.  Maybe there wasn't before string
synths, but there certainly was after.  I didn't want a string section in the
piece, I wanted PM-Strings.  Today we have sophisticated electronic music
personnel (I hope) who understand such concepts.  Unfortunately we also have
people like Hof who want to cling to the safety of conventional musical
expression.
I also resent the mentioning of Kate Bush as an example of someone who is
apart from the rest in that her overuse of synths is ok.  Get it straight,
there are synthesizers and there are Fairlights.  While using a Fairlight
as does Kate, shares a lot in common with some synthesizer techniques, the
whole technology of sampling musical kbds (notice I didn't say sampling
synthesizers which is a misnomer) opens up the world of 'real sounds' (i.e.,
not synthetic) for use in a musical context.  Ive noticed (now that I have
the whole set) synthesizer use (CS-80 and the like) is much more restrained
on HoL than it was even on Never For Ever.  Kate is an exectpional pianist,
and a master of the use of a Fairlight, but I've seen no evidence of any
sort of exceptional synthesis on any of her stuff which can be attributed
to more than excellent overall keyboard dexterity.  Also, the album credits
usually point to another musician when a 'real synthesizer' is included
anyway.
I do, I guess (I'm trying hard to be objective here) see how someone could
believe that Hi-NRG music has too much synthesizer.  Such an opinion can
easily be explained by lack of understanding of fundamental concepts.  If
Hi-NRG is supposed to sound like it does then it has just the right amount
of synthesizers.  There is a general concept here, Hof, ANYTHING THAT SOUNDS
THE WAY IT WAS INTENDED HAS THE CORRECT AMOUNT OF EVERYTHING IT HAS. Period.
You can criticize the work, you can criticize the gendre, but saying that
Hi-NRG sucks because it has too much synthesizer is the same as saying that
Vivaldi's music sucks because it has too much violin.  Hi-NRG would probably
suck if it was played with congas and digeridus.
Away from Hi-NRG and other pop styles where synth is prominent, there is a
serious side of pop synthesis.  Philip Glass, Tomita, Lary Fast are among
the most easily mentioned examples of serious synthesists.  Glass, being
the most radical member of this set in that in the future, when Butthole
Surfers are forgotten, Glass will probably be revered as a classical composer.
In closing, synthesizers are instruments.  They should be considered equally
with their longer lived cousins.  A musical composition, should not be
evaluated based on the instruments with which it is played but on the time
tested critical evaluations of the quality of the final product.  Sh*t
will sound like sh*t no matter what it is played on.

Maybe if Coitus used more synths.... (sigh)

John
------

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Date: Fri, 16 May 86 17:54:23 EDT
From: nessus (Doug Alan)
Subject: Re:  Video Question re KB

> [John Rossi:]

> Were there any other video releases from the Dreaming other than
> Suspended in Gaffa.  More specifically, was there a video release of
> the title track?  Does anyone have information of any Laser Disk
> video releases of Kate's stuff?

Yeah, Kate Bush was one of the first people to do videos.  She has
done a video for every single she has released and then some.  There
is a compilation of her videos called "The Singles File".  It contains
videos for "Wuthering Heights", "The Man With The Child In His Eyes",
"Them Heavy People", "Wow", "Hammer Horror", "Breathing", "Army
Dreamers", "Babooshka", "Sat In Your Lap", "The Dreaming", "There Goes
A Tenner", and "Suspended In Gaffa".

Unfortunately, it was never released in the U.S. and is thus only
available as a Japanese import.  (I wouldn't play a British import
video tape in my US VCR, and expect to see anything, if I were you).
Price for video cassette: $75.  (In England it sells for 19.99
Pounds).  Price for laser disk: $29.99.  The laser disk can be ordered
from Instant Replay in Waltham, MA.  They do mail order and their
phone number is (617) 890-9262.  "Kate Bush Live at the Hammersmith
Odeon" is also available on laserdisk for $29.99.  The video cassette
of this *was* released in the US and is available for about $55.

Regarding Kate and synths...  Kate has said that personally she isn't
overly-fond of synthesizers much.  She thinks they sound too
mechanical and artificial.  She much prefers the organic sound and
distorted reality sound of sampling keyboards.

		"Roxanne, you don't need to turn on the fair light"

		 Doug

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Subject: The better part of valor
Date: Fri, 16 May 86 15:02:52 -0800
From: J. Peter Alfke <alfke@cit-vax>


	* James Hofmann
	* Peter Alfke

...one of us is turning into Larry Palena, and I'm determined that it shall
not be me.  I have more to say on the subject of our argument, and in
reply to some of the more personal accusations thrown at me, but I'm not
going to say any of them.  It's just not worth the time, neither to me
nor (especially) to the other people reading this.

Backing off was a technique that kept my face intact in high school, and
I suppose it's time to re-use it now.  Say what's necessary to appease
them, but make sure they see the contempt on your face.

I have enough self-respect to shut my mouth before things get out of
hand.  I hope Mr. Hofmann has the same.

Sigh. 'Nuff said.
						--Peter Alfke
						  alfke@csvax.caltech.edu

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Date: Fri, 16 May 86 18:27:23 EDT
From: nessus (Doug Alan)
Subject: The Big Sky

I talked to someone at EMI today and he said that "The Big Sky" is
being released in the U.S. as a single on 5/28 and that a 12" is being
released on 6/4.  He says that the video is great (but this is the
person who said that RuTH is just a bunch a ballet dancing, so we
shall see...)  He also said that he feels this song will revitalize
sales of the album.

		"But I never go in now"

		 Doug

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Date:    Fri, 16 May 86 15:59 PDT
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
Subject: Kate and the commercial

In response to John's ominous predictions
of Kate "selling out", let's set aside for
the moment the fact that nobody can reasonably
predict what Kate's next album will
sound like before it is heard; and come instead to
the question of what defines "selling out".
The big mistake being made in Love-Hounds
(and everywhere else, for that matter) is
the confusion of "innovation" with "quality".
The words are not synonymous. I am willing to concede that
Hounds of Love was probably not as "daring" or "challenging",
from a musical standpoint, as The Dreaming. This does not,
however, by any means indicate that Hounds of Love is
a "worse" album, even in reference to its musical content alone.
The Dreaming is raw where Hounds of Love is polished. Kate may
hone the jagged edge of her creative development to an even
smoother finish in the future, or she may react against her
recent tendency to perfect a fully developed style. This
is a relatively insignificant matter, when one realizes that,
whether partially accessible to a large and unconsidering
public or not, whether rough or smooth in texture and effect,
whether related to recognizably "commercial" musical
idioms or not, it still cannot fail to be the best music of its
time, because it will evolve out of the mind of Kate Bush.
                   There are different ways of defining
the nature of "progressive" music. Is Thursday Afternoon,
Brian Eno's nth edition of non-commercial and highly sophisticated
ambient music, really deserving of greater respect than Gabriel's
unabashedly commercial new record, simply because Eno's work still
bears hallmarks of an avant-garde sensibility, despite the
inescapable fact of its similarity to Discreet Music, a recording
of nearly ten years earlier? I don't particularly like Gabriel's
venture into the musical idiom of Otis Redding, but I see no
reason why his deliberate change of direction should be deplored,
simply because the result is more palatable to the public. Should
not the stagnant productions of a self-conscious avant-garde
be deplored equally? For the same reason, I will argue,
Ferry's latest -- and admittedly highly commercial, even
cloyingly commercial -- record, is not to be regretted more than the
recent work of his renegade colleague; there is, after all, in
the tameness of "Is Your Love Strong Enough?", at least a sign of
movement, evidence of a kind of creative development which
Thursday Afternoon's rolling fields of arcane sound lack.
Commerciality is not in itself proof of poor quality
or low artistic value; conversely, an unswerving devotion to
pre-conceived ideas of the "new" does not in itself gain admission
into the neverland of the "good". So, as we recognize the audible signs
of commercial finish in Hounds of Love, we should appreciate, as well,
the novelty that such a finish can acquire, when born of a
union of the commercial and -- Kate Bush.

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Date:     Fri, 16 May 86 12:22:44 EDT
From: Nancy Everson <everson@BBN-SPCA.ARPA>
Subject:  KB & PG, and a Cure question

Hi.  This is the first time I have sent anything to Love-Hounds, so
maybe I should say that I'm a recent convert to Kate Bush, but a bit
fanatical (as converts tend to be).  My tastes in music run heavily to
the Cure, OMD, New Order, Echo & the B-men, and Elvis Costello.

I heard the new Peter Gabriel/Kate Bush duet from _SO_ on the radio
yesterday afternoon.  I was at work, so I didn't listen to closely, but
it was pretty.  I think it will get lots of play on progressive easy
listening stations everywhere. :-)

Now, the real reason for my first posting, I finally got the cd of the
Cure's _Seventeen Seconds_ yesterday, and noticed two "flaws".  I was
wondering if all the disks are this way, or if I should take it back for
a replacement.  The flaws:  1.)  2:22 into "M", the right channel drops
out for a split-second.  2.) at the end of "Seventeen Seconds", the song
ends apparently in the middle of a note, sort of like a careless person
had been taping the song and turned off the recorder before the song was
quite over.  Otherwise, it sounds great.  Are these problems found on
other disks, or is it just this particular one?

By the way, I happened to notice yesterday at the Harvard Square Newbury
comics:  the Kate Bush cd's are found directly behind the Jaques Brel
cd's.  I was amused, in light of recent LH discussions.

				    - Nancy
				    (everson@bbn-spca.arpa)
				    (i don't know uucp)


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Date:     Fri, 16 May 86 9:52:33 EDT
From: Hofmann@AMSAA.ARPA
Subject:  [davidl%tekgen.tek.csnet:  Clearly,]

Forwarded message -----------

From: davidl%tekgen.tek.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA

this individual

>1. What, Mr. Hoffman, is "Sarcastic Orgasm"?  Have you heard of the
>Dayglow Abortions?  We got a record by them at WJHU.  I swear, it
>takes a lot to disgust me, but the cover of this album did it.  It
>depicts a cartoon Nancy and Ronald Reagan sitting down for a hearty
>meal of foetus with vegetable sauce...urp.  Noway was I going to put
>that sucker on the turntable.

has missed the ENTIRE point - which is, (1) the NEW Dayglo Abortions
album, "Feed Us Foetus", only contains PART of their earlier release,
"Out of the Womb", (2) I, God, do not HAVE a copy of this earlier release,
and (3) I will do anything, including torture small children to death
with a blowtorch, to get it.  (I'm God, right?  I ENJOY stuff like that).

Anyone, particularly YOU, !hofmann, who hasn't heard "1967", which is at
LEAST on that earlier release, hasn't heard the final word on 1960's...

hey, face it - preppies think it's IN to hate anything punk (unless it's
something "in" like the Replacements - but, then, they never were....... and
NOW, they're just...... snicker....) (still lookin' fer that mushroom cloud...)

>THIS IS REALLY PISSING ME OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>Ruptured blood vessels split

Why?  I mean, it's FUNNY!  That dork DJ is looking for somebody to agree
with it - here's your chance to dismember it!   OH, I forGOT - you've
got a college-radio fixation.  Hmmmmm..... WHY in the hell do you somehow
EXPECT college radio in deGENeral to somehow rise above the norm of
scummercial radio?  I mean, after all, college radio is just a breeding
ground for the next degeneration of teeny-pop wankoff DJ's.  It's a miracle
we get ANYthing out of it!  SH*T, hofdorker - I took the TV antenna off
the roof of my hovel and put up a high-gain FM antenna and I get ONE HARDCORE
SHOW A WEEK from 90 miles away and that's ALL THE RADIO OR TV I GET ALL
WEEK.  I refused a free cable hookup when they ran the damned electronic
sewer past my house.  Like I said - you swim in the cesspool, you're gonna
stink!

>2. The Smifs should have a record out by the end of June.  The title
>has something to do with the Queen.  I used to think they were God,
>but that was just a passing craze.  I'll still be interested in '
>hearing the new record, though.

(note - it needs to be informed that God doesn't have the first Dayglo
Abortions release, and might kill it just for fun, if he doesn't
play the one IT'S got)

HEY....... you KNOW, that station PROBABLY got that for FREEEeeeeee
from Toxic Shock - if you really wanna raise hell, !hofdingler, you
could call up Toxic Shock and explain the situation to them, and then
mail them a copy of what he wrote, AND and and.  Sh*t, you're into
blithering nonsense about college radio, you oughta be UP for it.

>4. I would like to pause and recommend a record to all love-hounders,
>especially those who are into Suzanne Vega.  The artiste is ANNA
>DOMINO.  Her voice and lyrics remind me of Suzanne, even though
>there is no guitar on her self-titled LP, just out as an import on
>Crepuscule.  The music...well, Sade comes close only infinitely
>cooler than that.  It's a little jazzy.  A fine, fine record.  

That cum-hounds list sure must be a cesspool,if there's anybody on it
that's heard of this sh*t

GET A HIGH-GAIN ANTENNA AND PUT IT ON YOUR ROOF, hofdorker.  I'll even
help you get it working if it'll make you quit wanking endlessly about
crawledge radio...

----- End of forwarded messages

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-- 
It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how I keep from goin' under.

Greg Skinner (gregbo)
{decvax!genrad, allegra, gatech, ihnp4}!mit-eddie!gds
gds@eddie.mit.edu