🚀 go-pugleaf

Love-Hounds Digest			Sunday, May 25, 1986, 02:03 EDT

Topics:

		     You can't back off now, Peter.
		      In reply to Herr Rossi. . .
			     IED IN MTV SOS
			PG Selling Out in style
		       Robert Fripp gets married
			     Dannielle Dax
			       Cd Plants
				 SO....
	    Hey, Krantz (a non Kate Bush person recommends)

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Date:     Mon, 19 May 86 9:00:11 EDT
From: Hofmann@AMSAA.ARPA
Subject:  You can't back off now, Peter.

Come on. You said you were a "post-modern" type of guy.  Tell me just
what you mean.  What is "post-modern"?

Just because you can't come up with a counter-argument doesn't mean
this discussion can be interesting.  Come on, guy.

----
Oh, as long as I'm here, Herr Rossi ... I said "obnoxious" not "overuse"

Obnoxious ... tinpanschreechingrubberbandssoundsjustlikeeveryothersynth
recording ... Obnoxious ... dink, dink.



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Date:     Mon, 19 May 86 12:28:43 EDT
From: Young Adult in a Septic Tank <hofmann@AMSAA.ARPA>
Subject:  In reply to Herr Rossi. . .

Mr Rossi points out:
>Unfortunately we also have people like Hof who want to cling to the safety of 
>conventional musical expression.

Then he  goes on to tell us...
>Hi-NRG is supposed to sound like it does then it has just the right amount
>of synthesizers.  There is a general concept here, Hof, ANYTHING THAT SOUNDS
>THE WAY IT WAS INTENDED HAS THE CORRECT AMOUNT OF EVERYTHING IT HAS. Period.
>You can criticize the work, you can criticize the gendre, but saying that
>Hi-NRG sucks because it has too much synthesizer is the same as saying that
>Vivaldi's music sucks because it has too much violin.  Hi-NRG would probably
>suck if it was played with congas and digeridus.
>Away from Hi-NRG and other pop styles where synth is prominent, there is a

The point is this use of the synth has become VERY conventional - almost TOO
conventional to the point of idiocy. (disco)  I think the synth pop bands are 
among the most conventional ...  I'm sorry, but is it wrong to find new ways
to coax sounds out of guitars?  Are guitars a dirty word among you electronic
geniuses?  Is *this* an example of "the empororer wears no clothes" ... is
anyone going to confirm this or should I just wallow in my ignorance.

>serious side of pop synthesis.  Philip Glass, Tomita, Lary Fast are among
>the most easily mentioned examples of serious synthesists.  Glass, being
>the most radical member of this set in that in the future, when Butthole
>Surfers are forgotten, Glass will probably be revered as a classical composer.
>In closing, synthesizers are instruments.  They should be considered equally
>with their longer lived cousins.  A musical composition, should not be
>evaluated based on the instruments with which it is played but on the time
>tested critical evaluations of the quality of the final product.  Sh*t
>will sound like sh*t no matter what it is played on.

When Glass is revered as a classical composer (or imposter) you shall be dead.

So will Glass.

Live for now I say ... I find The Butthole Surfers recent work alot more 
interesting than Glass's work.  Maybe what all you "serious" art-rockers 
can't comprehend is that rock is a fad, a trend and any attempts to mangle
it or compose it are fruitless and is a basic solitary indulgence.  So, the
Surfers won't be remember two generations hence - I'll certainly remember them
long after I have forgotten Glass's recent work, that's for sure ... is that
all that counts?  When it comes to rock, hell yes!
At least the Surfers don't rise to these prententions because as Neils Mayers
goes, "it doesn't really matter (ad infin)..."  I've heard Tomita and if
he is a serious synthesists then why am I hold my guts in laughing at the
mere mention of his name?  By your defintion, John, serious synthesists are 
pretentious assholes.

Again, I don't want to assume that P. Glass feels this way, only what Rossi
said ...

As for Chopin, Vivaldi et al ... their music is mildly interesting to me but 
really is devoid of any message ... it's a good showcase for "talented" 
musicians to show off and build their ego to tuxedoed audiences though.
How cum people always fall asleep at these concerts, though?

>Maybe if Coitus used more synths.... (sigh)

I don't know about all this "time-tested" and "serious musical composition"
arguments that permeate net.music and now this list?  I think since it is nearly
impossible for an artist to reach every person in the universe with his
message that success can come if you've influenced/moved/been understood
by at least one person.  But the more the merrier.  So don't feel bad as
I understand alot of people enjoyed your music.

By the time you're dead and revered/or spat upon - it won't matter, you won't
be here to get your ego gratified/degraded.  Unless of course, the geneticists
are right and we live to be 300 years old.

Ignorantly yours,
   James

----
p.s. I think all these putdowns of Larry Palena are classless and just as sexist
and discriminatory as the worst of what I've seen.  Even more so.  The guy isn't
here to defend himself - when you attack Tim for using the word "fag" at least
he can defend himself... even if you do sound like the PMRC and all.

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Date:    Mon, 19 May 86 11:49 PDT
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
Subject: IED IN MTV SOS

For self-therapeutic reasons I have
decided to let everyone know that,
in hopes of recording "The Big Sky"
promo film, I have now watched nearly
13 hours of MTV.
This has been a thoroughly depressing experience
even in fast scanning speed. Iknow it sounds naive, but I
simply cannot understand how the people who run that station can
go to sleep at night, knowing what they do, how much
bad taste they are responsible for. I don't mean to imply that I
have any moral objection like the senators' wives,  or anything
like that -- but can someone explain to me how any self-respecting
teen-ager (I assume the large majority of their audience are
in their mid-teens) can submit to video after video of these
bands of beefy men with elaborately coiffed hair and ludicrous
electric guitars, strutting about in striped or leopard-spotted
tights and wiggling in front of paid models? How many garish
orange-and-blue lighting effects will the audience take without
objection? For how long will they tolerate the exhibition of an
endless succession of mindless, preening, narcissistic morons?
And how many viewers have been really deluded into a belief that
lip-synching is actually a live performance? If none, then why does
lip-synching continue? I assume that Kate continues to
do it out of an obligation to satisfy the demands of her business,
but who in the business could still be convinced of the efficacy of
lip-synching? It seems to me that whatever advantage gained from
letting the original recording substitute for a potentially imperfect
live performance of the music is more than offset by the ridiculous
visual effect of lip-synching itself. Half the time now the performers
don't even go through the minimal attempt at deception of holding a
microphone. I'm down, L-Hs, I'm really down. And it's going to get
worse as the days go by, as long as I have to keep watching that
crud.

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Posted-Date: 19 May 86 15:44:16 PDT (Mon)
Subject: PG Selling Out in style
Date: 19 May 86 15:44:16 PDT (Mon)
From: tsung@aerospace.ARPA


Caught the unmistakable Peter Gabriel voice in a strong-beat, simplistic, 
funky song on KROQ that will make those of you who didn't like
"Sledgehammer" **FAINT**.  It's a cut from "SO" called "Big Time".  It
has the same female chorus as in "Sledghammer" doing "Big time, big
time" in the background throughout.  Ah, but wait, seems like he's just
having a ball.  Here's some lyrics as I could make out (my ears
apologizes to Mr. PG for screw-ups):

	The place where I come from
	Is a small town
	They think so small
	They use small words
	But not me
	I'm smarter than that
	I worked it out
	I'll be stretching my mouth
	To let those big words come right out
	I've had enough
	I'm getting out
	To the city, the big big city
	I'll be a big noise
	With all the big boys
	(So much stuff I will know)
	And I will pray to be good
	As I kneel in my big church
	I know my way I'm making it
	...
	...
	My party have all the big names
	And I greet them with the widest smile
	Tell'em how my life
	Is one big adventure
	(They all stood amazed)
	As I show them around my house
	...
	And my heaven will be a big heaven
	And I will walk thru the front door
		(big time)
	I know my way I'm making it
		(big time, big time)
	I've got to make it show, yeah
		(big time, big time) 
	So much larger than life
		(big time)
	I'm gonna watch it growing
		(big time, big time)
	
	My car's getting bigger
	My house's getting bigger
	( --various other items getting bigger-- )
	And my BANK ACCOUNT
	Look at my circumstance
	(something?) Big, big, big, big, big, big, big, .... big.

Whew (thanks to my nimble fingers on the tape recorder).  Anyway, music-wise
we're talking Instant Top-10 contender here.  "Sledgehammer" sounds like
"The Dreaming" in comparison ... (ok, so I'm overreacting a little).
At least now we know where those rumors come from.

		"Absolutely the BEST song I've heard in SOooooo long ...
		 I can only wonder how Marvelous the 12" of that song's
		 gonna be ... I suggest you go out and get that album
		 'cause it's Extra Wonderful."	-- KROQ DJ

Fu-Sheng


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Return-Path: <umcp-cs!jhunix!jhunix!ins_aset>
Date:     Fri, 16 May 86 11:33:05 EDT
From: Susanne E Trowbridge <umcp-cs!jhunix!ins_aset@seismo.CSS.GOV>
Subject:  Robert Fripp gets married

Yesterday (5/15), Robert Fripp married British singer/actress Toyah
Willcox.  I thought someone, somewhere may be interested...it's
supposedly still a big secret, but I have good sources for such
gossip...

Fripp is also producing Toyah's new album for EG Records.  Anybody
out there like Toyah?  I've always thought her voice was like that of
a second-rate KB, but she's done some good songs, notably "Dance"
(that's "dahhnse"!) on the "Urgh" soundtrack...

-Sue

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Date: Tue, 13 May 86 23:08:56 edt
From: John Kitamura <decvax!utcsri!kato>
Subject: Dannielle Dax
Apparently-To: Love-Hounds

	Miss Dax was once a member of the Lemon Kittens who had one
release (We Buy A Hammer For Daddy) on some independent British label.
A track off of that album appeared on the Glass Sampler (so the album
was probably on Glass Records, but I'm not sure), which is available
from Wayside Music.

	She also sings on the original release of Robert Fripp's The
League of Gentlemen album (though the track was removed off of the
re-released version retitiled God Save the King), as well as creating
the cover art on both that album and Fripp's Let the Power Fall album.

	That's all I know.
		John Kitamura
UUCP:   {decvax,linus,ihnp4,uw-beaver,allegra,utzoo}!utcsri!kato

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Date: Sat 17 May 86 16:05:58-EDT
From: "Scott Frazier" <DPH.SWF@OZ.AI.MIT.EDU>
Subject: Cd Plants
Apparently-To: Love-Hounds

There are currently 2 fully operational compact disc plants in the
world at this time. One is owned by Sony/Epic and the other is owned
by Warner Communications. When you see that a disc was made by another
company, they have contracted one of the plants to make their CD's. I
am not sure if there are other plants in production, but I do know
that if Compact Disc ever catches on, the companies would LOVE to
phase out vinyl. One of the claims to fame of this product is not in
the disc itself, but in the case that your disc comes in. They are
relatively cheap and they also won't break under any normal pressures
that either shipping or storage could inflict. They do an excellent
job of protecting your investment.  If you buy a disc and the prongs
that hold it inside are broken, you might consider taking it back.

Swf

[Jeez, I can't stand those tiny ugly little boxes that CDs come in!  I
wish they'd come in normal record jackets!!!  -- Doug]

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Date: Tue, 20 May 86 04:00:14 EDT
From: nessus (Doug Alan)
Subject: SO....

3 and a half years waiting for this!  Sigh...  maybe next time...
Even Kate can't save "Don't Give Up" from being any more than mildly
interesting.  "Sledgehammer" and "Big Time" are the two best songs on
the album, other than "Mercy Street", which is pretty good.  The rest
isn't all that commercial -- it's just kind of dull.  The album has its
moments, but this just isn't what you would expect from a God.  At
least nothing on the album is as bad as "Not This Time".

Well, back to listening to Ministry and the Buttholes and Danielle and
Kate sing "Breathing" at Comic Relief (the performance of this song is
worth twice the 17 smackers it cost me for this album...  sob, sob,
sob...)...

			"one dream"

			 Doug


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Newsgroups: net.music
Subject: Hey, Krantz (a non Kate Bush person recommends)
Date: 19 May 86 20:13:07 GMT
From: astroatc!gtaylor (oh...*Gregory* Taylor...never mind.)
Apparently-To: Love-Hounds

[This is something that Greg Taylor posted to net.music.  I thought
that some of the KB fanatics in Love-Hounds might want to see it and
debate with Greg Taylor over whether or not *The Dreaming* is a
Derridean mistake, whether or not KB is better than sliced bread, and
whether or not KB will ever be able to top *The Dreaming*.  (Nah, the
reason why it's such a great album is because so many intense things
were happening to Kate at once: she was learning how to use the
Fairlight and the studio, she's was risking her career by taking full
control of production, John Lennon had recently been killed, which
shattered her, she was unhappy living in the city, she had to bounce
from studio to studio and was getting uptight about all the money it
was costing to record the album, and from the sound of "Get Out Of My
House" was having relationship problems.  This level of combination of
events is unlikely to happen again.  Miserable people make better
music.  Question: do we want Kate do be miserable so she'll come out
with another album as good as *The Dreaming*?  What a dillema!)
--Doug]

>>>> [mike krantz:] Perhaps I should investigate the music of this
>>>> little Defender Of The Faith.
>
>>> [Doug:] You should!

Hey, Krantz. Blow off all the other stuff and get "The Dreaming." Forget
all the "who did it first, Peter Gabriel or Kate Bush?" nonsense. The
albums are timbrally similar because of the Fairlight technology itself.
Gabriel bought one first, but who gives a hoot.

(Danger. Words of praise for Kate Bush) "the Dreaming" is a great album.
As a whole, coherent piece of work, Ms. Bush will have to really work
to do any better at all-kind of like Boz Scaggs. He should have simply
quit after recording "Somebody Loan Me a Dime" with Duane Allman.
Kate Bush is not, however, the greatest thing since sliced bread. She's
okay, but hey. So is Professor Longhair, and he's DEAD.

If you hate the Dreaming for how it sounds, go and hunt up either an
earlier album of Doug's choice or Hounds. I think that you'll have missed
what makes the Dreaming really good if you can't stand the way it 
sounds, though.

I think that the Dreaming is a properly Derridean collision/mistake:
Kate Bush crossed her sort of usual, precious, privatist, prog-rock
poetic leanings with a Fairlight and made a beast that was bigger
and more resonant than the sum of its parts. To the extent that the
center of her music is essentially Egoistic (I'll do what I want),
she *did* use the studio as an instrument...but I think that it used her,
too. It is the sort of precious and rare fluke that you hope the 
marketplace produces again. I suspect that she'll spend the rest 
of her career trying to formalize what worked about the Dreaming,
or trying to go back to her neo-Gothic stuff, and failing in what
might be some interesting ways.

Put it up on the list with Bob DYlan's "Blood on the Tracks"
There. Is that enough bias for you?

Trust me. Then go buy David Sylvian's "Brilliant Trees". Same sort
of general thing. Ditto for Jan Gabarek's "aftenland" and.....
-- 
"Dangerous? It's very dangerous. It's a liability nightmare. But this
is California. You can do anything here." (-Mark Pauline of Survival
Research Laboratories)  Gregory Taylor/ ...uwvax!astroatc!gtaylor

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-- 
It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how I keep from goin' under.

Greg Skinner (gregbo)
{decvax!genrad, allegra, gatech, ihnp4}!mit-eddie!gds
gds@eddie.mit.edu