🚀 go-pugleaf

Love-Hounds Digest			Sunday, May 25, 1986, 12:23 EDT

Topics:

		  sonicmeatchristianbaitvoid and cd's
			  CDs VS LPs (2 msgs)
  Infinite Loops, BOSurfers, NZ, ``Not This,'' Dolby, T-Bone, Meatmen
		   synths, fads and guitarprocessing
			      Random Noise
				 Promos
		       Looking for "The Big Sky"

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Date:     Tue, 20 May 86 12:06:31 EDT
From: Swingset Disaster <hofmann@AMSAA.ARPA>
Subject:  sonicmeatchristianbaitvoid and cd's


New Sonic Youth LP is out on SST entitled EVOL.  Carries on in the
tradition of Bad Moon Rising.  Kim is sounding more and more like
Britt (FALL) and some of the tunes *are* sounding the same despite
their claims otherwize.  Doug ought to be proud of one of the tracks
which is alternatively entitled "The Crucifixtion of Sean Pean" or
"Sean, Madonna and Me" or "Expressway to your Skull" ... this track
has a built in repeat at the end so it can time in on infinity and
lyrics like "I want to explode the milken maidenhead" (Madonna?).  My
favorite cut is "death to our friends" which reminds me of a modern
chamber orchestra with guitars.  Continuing in the tradition of Branca ... 

New Meat Puppets LP is their worst.  They're going downhill fast.  At
least Up on The Sun had some unique qualities - this new one (I forget
the name ... wonder why) sounds just like Green on Red sounds just like
R.E.M. sounds just like Long Ryders.  Denigrators of Amercian guitar
music take note ... here's a slab to truly put down.  Saved by a thrash
and racous version of "Good Golly, Miss Molly".  Purchase at your own
risk (or if you're a deahead ...)

Got a limited (500 copies) edition recording by Blackhouse, the industrial
group with a twisted twist - suprise - they're Christian.  This record is
called "hope. . ." and every cover is different (looks like they cut up
some baroque art books and pasted different religous prints on each cover,
my copy had Jesus et al in a boat on a stormy sea).  Aside from the Christian
overtones, this might serve as a good intro to industrial music.  After this
you'll know whether you like this genre or not.  Me?  I can only take it in
short doses but texturists may have a ball with this.  Kinda leaves a perma-
sneer on your face, and empty feeling in your chest (like you're falling) ...

Squirrelbait EP/LP? has been out on homestead for awhile. They sounds
like Green on Red/REM again except it's speeded up
immensely and the vocalist sounds like he's been gargling
with Doug's razor blades.

The Pherenomes do a hilarious tune called Yuppiedrone - if you
can find the 45 get it - you'll die laughing.  STarts off with
the narrator droning mechanically the specs of his new stereo system
with the rejoinder "so I can listen to Adult Contemporary music ...
cranked up to three" or talking about his condo development ("and
no one knows I'm here ... unless I park in their space") and a 
bridge-chorus-round of "I love my car and house" ...

If you want a godly example of metalcore to fill out your collection,
you can try Voivod from Canada.  Unlike the increasingly populated field
of rehashed commercial heavy metal this genre is turning into (far away
from its' punk roots), Voivod sports the old D.I.Y. ethic.  The drummer
painted the cover (heavy metal primitive) which jumps off the shelf and
grabs you by the t-shirt. And if you don't like it - you can always give

>From: "Scott Frazier" <DPH.SWF@OZ.AI.MIT.EDU>
>Subject: Cd Plants

>am not sure if there are other plants in production, but I do know
>that if Compact Disc ever catches on, the companies would LOVE to
>phase out vinyl. One of the claims to fame of this product is not in
>the disc itself, but in the case that your disc comes in. They are
>relatively cheap and they also won't break under any normal pressures
>that either shipping or storage could inflict. They do an excellent
>job of protecting your investment.  If you buy a disc and the prongs
>that hold it inside are broken, you might consider taking it back.

Well, it's obvious the "companies" would LOVE to phase out vinyl.  They've
lost their control over the means of production right and they'd LOVE
to get it back.  My solution:  don't buy/give credence to any CD's unless
they come out independently.  That's about 2 or 3, right?

>[Jeez, I can't stand those tiny ugly little boxes that CDs come in!  I
>wish they'd come in normal record jackets!!!  -- Doug]
Then don't buy them.



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Date: Tue, 20 May 86 11:42:19 EST
From: hsut@ec.purdue.edu (Bill Hsu)


Lots of truly random observations and responses...


Re: synths vs. non-synths

Uhh... I think you guys are arguing the same position here. I agree with
Hof that many groups are using synths in the same boring way. I also
agree with John Rossi that there are people doing interesting things
with synths. Instruments are instruments; you can do boring things
with them or you can do interesting things with them.


Re: fads vs. immortality

< Hof sez rock is a fad >
This "test-of-time" thing was discussed superbly in a Greg Taylor
article in net.music. I used to be pretty concerned about whether
something I like will stand the dreaded "test of time", but then that
was my (half-discarded) classical training showing :-) :-). Nobody
can tell what people 100 years from now will consider the real :-) music
of the 20th century. Maybe rock is just a fad. Maybe it will last.
If I enjoy it, I'll keep listening and that's enough. (Of course that
doesn't explain why I get upset about Top 40, but oh well...)


Re: Glass

I still haven't warmed up to Glass. I don't think he's a good
example of someone who uses synthesizers creatively, since a lot of
his music that I'm familiar with can be done on conventional instruments
(e.g., Glassworks, stuff from Einstein otB)


Re: Throbbing Gristle

I'm a recent convert to TG, and my suggestion is don't start with the live
stuff (except maybe Heathen Earth). I've heard Greatest Hits, Heathen
Earth, and some of the live stuff. The TG sound is fairly varied, lots
of synth drones, subtle textural changes, treated instruments, and
distorted vocals. There are some truly intense and harrowing tracks,
and light-hearted dance numbers. Greatest Hits offers a good range of
their work. Heathen Earth is a 50 min. live-in-the-studio album which
is more diffuse (there's only one cut) but has many interesting moments.

Chris and Cosey is lighter stuff, mostly the same TG tricks without
the sleaze. 


Bill Hsu


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Return-Path: EMAILDEV%UKACRL.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA
Via:      UK.AC.SUSX.VAX2; 20 MAY 86 18:29:03 BST
Date:     20-MAY-1986 18:24:20
From: SSUD3%UK.AC.SUSSEX.VAX2@AC.UK



Just a few questions regarding the new Peter Gabriel album
I bought yesterday:

1) Maybe I should have made it "the new PG - CD", since
   Virgin records issued the CD simultaneously with the
   album. Was this the case in the U.S.? Did Geffen records
   release the CD of "So" yesterday?

2) I was really expecting a digital recording, in light of
   all the fuss over "security", as well as it being one of
   the first US CD's and all.....however, the SPARS code on
   this new CD says "AAD", which seems a bit suspicious, since
   not only does the CD sound excellent, but one would think
   that at least he'd MIX the album digitally. Perhaps they
   made a mistake and it should be "DDD"?

   What does the Geffen CD say about this?

More reaction to the album to follow tomorrow.

Hugh Maher


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Date: 20 May 86 14:17:00 PST
From: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc.ARPA>
Subject: CDs VS LPs
Reply-To: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc.ARPA>


For some time now I have been considering adding a CD player to my somewhat
ancient audio equipment.  For the most part, the thing that had turned me off
was the high cost of the music after purchasing of the relatively inexpensive
disks.  At $15-18 the CDs certainly are not cheap.  Well, lately I decided
that maybe I was ready to make the step. What with the event of $179 CD players,I figured I could afford one.  Just as I was about to purchase one, this
quarter's issue of the Computer Music Journal arrived at the lab.  There was
an interesting critical/review article on CD players as well as digital 
mastering and digital reproduction of music as a whole.  Finally, I found
a non-profit, musically (as opposed to engineering/technology) oriented,
no-holds barred review of the state of the art in music reproduction (Done at
MIT, no less).  The results, wghich I will summarize briefly here, were
surprising, especially considering all the 'hype' the CD medium has been
receiving lately.

Greenspun, P. and Stromeyer, C.F.  Audio Analysis IV : Compact Disk Players,
'Computer Music Journal', 1986, '10(1)', pp 87-95.

The article is somewhat technical so I'll summarize, quoting directly, where
appropriate.

Point number 1.  Using technology available today, CD players can not achieve
the high fidelity possible with conventional turntables using moving magnet,
or moving coil cartriges. ... When testing the fidelity of CDs vs an audiophile
stereo system the authors found that for high quality analog media , (i.e.,
high quality pressings), the analog equipment produced remarkably beter 
fidelity.  Consider, the frequency response of a typical home use cartrige such
as Audio Technica, Grado, Sure etc with frequency response in excess of 35K Hz,
going to an amplifier (again the type you might have at home in a standard
system >$500 receiver or integrated amp) which is linear out to about 40K, 
reproducing music with harmonic content out to 48K, in comparison to the CD
response which is electronically limited to 20K, going through the same amp and
speakers.  It stands to reason that if nothing else, the analog system was
going to produce the best frequency fidelity.  Of course, this argument must be
tempered with the knowledge that true audiophile recording pressings in standardmedia are hard to come by, however, techniques such as DBX encoding, have been
used to enhance the performance of vinyl (out to 90 dB dynamic range, giving
vinyl similar dynamic characteristics to CDs, upcutting their only real sonic
advantage.

Point number 2. CDs are getting better at sound reproduction but the best CDs
will be cut from analog mastered tapes (i.e., the worst of all possible
combinations is digitally mastered tape to CD).  The problem in the CDs play-
back comes mainly from phase distortion, it has been corrected by changing the
sampling rate from 44.1 Khz (the initial Sony standard) up to 176.4 KHz and
incorporating better analog and digital filtering networks.  With the newer
technology, phase distortion has been eliminated for frequencies up to just
under 21K (notice however, there is no comparable phase distortion in cartrige
systems which extend frequency response up to 40KHz).  Therefore, CDs are now
capable of faithfully reproducing (more or less) musical frequencies up to
20K more or less perfectly (or at least as good as the best analog equipment).
"There is experimental evidence that frequencies beyond 20K are important for
the preception of transient sounds, although surprising little research has
been conducted in this area.  It is well established that that most humans can
not perceive steady state tones much above 20KHz, but it is also well est-
ablished that the ear is highly nonlinear.  The most detailed-sounding records
come from companies that use high band with tape recorders (analog) and
mastering equipment.  If 'ultrasonic' frequency response is important, CDs may
never sound as detailed as records (p 93)".  The authors site the failure of
digital recording techniques to correctly record musical signals as being
mainly a problem with aliasing (sampling rate insufficient to make proper
time/amplitude discriminations in a complex signal), phase distortion (when
the propragation time through a circuit is different for different frequencies),and ringing (when using a steep anti-aliasing filter, a multiplying of
frequencies due to extremely phase-incoherent characteristics).  Most of these
problems stem from the use of extremely steep sloped filters ... "The design
therefore calls for 90dB of attenuation within thw one-tenth octave that lies
between 20KHz and 22.05 KHz, which requires a 900 dB/octave filter.  As one
of us noted earlier in this series (Greenspun, 1984), it is very difficult
to design a filter this steep that doesn't introduce severe nonlinear dis-
tortion and ringing aftertransients (p. 87).

Thhe conclusion is that, although they did use 'primo' analog components (they
also used CD players averaging over $1000 in price, however), except for
dynamic range diferences (which are easily fixed by companding circuits such as
DBX), more faithfull recording/reproducinmg is possiblle with analog equipment.

The authors final comments (now all you anti-corporate, haters of the music
industry's scrotum grabbing techniques, who own CDs, take note).

  "It is possible that the construction of an oversampling tape recorder that
introduces no phase distortion or aliases will alleviate many of the medium's
problems, but it is also possible that imperfect digital-to-analog converters,
quantization noise, and other distortions will prevent the CD from becoming
a truely high fidelity medium (p 93)."

  "Aiwa's president, Heitaro Nakajima, and one of the original proponents of
the CD while a vice-president of Sony, put it best in a letter explaining
why such a low sampling rate was chosen for the CD (caps mine) 'We had to
decide on the cutoff point for the sampling frequency, and we HAD TO TAKE
ECONOMIC AND PRODUCTIOV FACTORS INTO CONSIDERATION.  The CD system WAS NOT
DESIGNED as the ultimate level sound reproduction medium.  However, THIS DOES
NOT MEAN WE FEEL ANY NEED TO CHANGE THE PRESENT STANDARD.' (p 94)".

So what does all this mean?  First, we probably don't want a CD version of
The Dreaming anyway, since it is a highly 'transient' piece of music and would
only be belittles bu a CD reproduction.  Maybe we should push for a DBX encoded
version.  Second, it means that I personally am going to stay with high
quality pressings and dynamic enhancement insteas of getting sucked into the
recording/record industry's latest sham.  By the way, I understand that
since CD's were chewed up so well, the next corporate gambit is going to be
a return to quadrophonics, except this time, done right (no doubt in this case
'done right' means that propoganda will be immense, Len Feldman and the boys
will eat it up, and that the corporate dollar will be better spent duping
the public into another, software intensive expense which will enable the
empire to continue to have fuel as the CD myth is finally disclosed.

'Read em' and weep'

John

------

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Date: Tue, 20 May 86 14:27:48 edt
From: Bob Krajewski <lmi-angel!rpk>
Subject: Infinite Loops, BOSurfers, NZ, ``Not This,'' Dolby, T-Bone, Meatmen

It's amazing how synths and studio-ness have become such a straw man in
little ``discussion.''  Let's just say that it's easy for arty types to
approve when they hear certain trappings (synths, cut-ups, heavy echo) just
as grungy guitars and sneered vocals seem to insure approval for the
righteous types who are defending us from the anything learned after 1978.
Of course, people do all kinds of things and somehow good can come of it, thank
goodness.  Nuff said, OK ?  Let's do some real networking !

* Butthole Surfers: For my money, the most exciting band at the moment.  Texan
Art Damage (in the Good sense of the phrase) that shakes, rattles, and rolls
yr bod and yr mind.  The tunes are catchy and varied even as they threaten
to fall apart.  And they aren't afraid to use the studio, either.  (Then
again, I thought Throbbing Gristle were kinda pop, too.)

* New Zealand: Well, now the underground tastemakers are rap- umm,
concentrating their cool-rays on this region.  I've been hearing various
pieces of this stuff on 'MBR, mostly from the Flying Nun label.  This is
probably a little off the mark, but the Velvet Underground is to NZ as the
Stooges are to Oz.  The sound tends to be more textured (one song I heard had
added to sitar (?) to the aural rush) and less ``thick'' than what's coming
out of continental Down Under (children of Radio Birdman, like the Exploding
White Mice).  Burning Question: Are Split Enz cool now ?

* The Way Heavy Metal Ought to Be: Go see the Meatmen.  You might be
offended, but you won't be bored (or disappointed, if you've got even the
tiniest sense of humour).

* T-Bone Burnett: I mentioned him a few Love-Hounds ago.  Credits include
albums by Elvis the Costello, Los Lobos, and the Bodeans (the last is his
best effort as a producer qua producer, in my opinion).  Along with Mitchell
Froom, Mr. Burnett works with groups identified with the ``roots'' movement
and then -- gasp -- actually makes good records with them.  The records
sound natural and smooth without overt slickness.  He's not afraid of a
little studio manipulation, like emphasising drums in a heavy percussion
break in the Bodeans' ``Fadeaway.''  Both Burnett and Froom try to give each
song a different character, and to try to escape or transcend the major
pitfall with so many r&r-revival records: textural and rhythmic similarity.

* ``Not This Time'': Well, it's certainly B-side material.  There's a good
song in there trying to get out, but the arrangement is pretty naff.

* Thomas Dolby: After collaborations with Prefab Sprout, Joni Mitchell,
Ryuichi Sakamoto, and George Clinton, and then finishing his new studio
(ThinkTank), he went off to do the soundtrack to ``Howard the Duck,'' a
Lucasfilm.  So, you might see an album from him in 1987...

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Date: 20 May 86 14:48:00 PST
From: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc.ARPA>
Subject: synths, fads and guitarprocessing
Reply-To: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc.ARPA>


In reply to Hofmann, I agree that the getting of new sounds out of guitars is
something to be explored (those same old rock cliches need updating), after all
isn't that what Fairlights are for?

When I mentioned Glass, Tomita and Fast, I had no intention of being examples
of an elitist group.  I was simply trying to contrast musicians who use
mainly synthesizers to create textures and sound montages which are interesting
and different with Hof's (presumably) villians, such as Hi-NRGers who give
synthesizers an irritating name.  My comment on Glass still stands, though.
But, I agree, that as is the case with most 'Classical' musicians, it takes
a considerable time for their music to reach classic status.

Although Tomita is the most commercial of three synthesists I mentioned, he
bears mentioning for his pioneering work in 'true synthesis'.  I'm sure
that few people laugh when they hear 'Snowflakes are Dancing' from which
even Kate Bush ripped off a sound (although I would also entertain the
possibility that she never heard 'Snowflakes' so arrived at a similar sound
by herself) [ the sound to which I refer is the modulated 'whistling' on
Never For Ever'].

Isn't 30 years a little long a period to consider a fad?  The industrial
revolution, should therefore also be looked at as a fad, I guess.

'Expunging files the Navy way"
John
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Date: Tue, 20 May 86 15:30:23 EDT
From: nessus (Doug Alan)
Subject: Re:  CDs VS LPs

Regarding whether or not CDs are a sham....

Yes, they have their problems....  No, a CD will never sound as
good as the first play of a perfectly recorded carefully cleaned
record pressed on audiophile vinyl and played on an expensive and
perfectly set-up turntable.  On the other hand, it will probably sound
better than the tenth play.  No one makes DBX encoded records any more,
and true audiophiles shudder at DBX anyway.  Like CDs, it reduces
noise at the expense of true high fidelity.

Fildelity wise, records and CDs are pretty comparible.  CDs, however,
don't wear out, don't pop and click, and don't require careful
handling.  The little boxes suck, however.  The only thing worse is
cassette packaging (there Hofmann!)

*The Dreaming* is sure to sound better on CD -- it was digitally
mixed.  All the 20KHz+ transients are already gone.  Kate Bush said
that she couldn't tell any difference in fidelity between digitally
mixing it and analog mixing it.  She chose digital, because she
thought the slightly "crystaline" sound the digital distortion added
was appropriate for the album.

			-Doug

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Subject: Random Noise
Date: Tue, 20 May 86 13:23:36 -0800
From: J. Peter Alfke <alfke@cit-vax>


[1] "POSTMODERN":  Postmodern is a wonderful buzzword, which is part of the
reason I love using it.  But apart from that, I am taking a class on
"Postmodern Fiction and Culture", in which we are reading such works as
"Lolita", "The Crying of Lot 49", and "Naked Lunch" ... so I should have
some idea of what I'm talking about.  While modernism reviled the
ever-growing mass-culture, postmodernism embraces it and uses its
forms and techniques to study the world we live in, a world in which
history and the artistic tradition are effectively dead, killed by
television and breakfast cereals.  Postmodern art likes to take
mass-culture icons and mix'n'match them out of context.  POP-art is
postmodern.  Early Talking Heads lyrics are way postmodern.  Throbbing
Gristle were postmodern.  Cabaret Voltaire, especially their videos, are
postmodern as all hell.  The Fairlight/EMU/etc. is an inherently
postmodern instrument, taking further what the tape-recorder started.

Anyhow, don't take it so seriously.


[2] THROBBING GRISTLE, ET AL.  I'll only begin to explain this.
Throbbing Gristle were an (anti)music group that grew out of an
extremely bizarre performance-art group called Coum Transmissions.  With
minimal instrumental prowess, T.G. attempted to create music for the
industrial age, primarily in live performances (which they called
"Psychick Rallies").  Said music ranged from screamed ranting over walls
of ugly guitar/synth noise ("Blood on the Floor", "Subhuman"), to creepy
droning dirges ("Hamburger Lady"), to synth-pop-from-hell ("Hot on the
Heels of Love").  T.G. released several studio albums (of which I've
heard "Second Annual Report" and "20 Jazz-funk Greats") and a
bewildering variety of semi-bootleg live recordings (they encouraged
people to put out bootlegs), of which "Thee Psychik Sacrifice" is one of
the best.  There is also a posthumous greatest-hits album,
"Entertainment Through Pain".  That album, released on Rough Trade, is a
really nice introduction to their work, and not too hard to find.

T.G. broke up in 1981, splitting into two halves: Chris Carter (synths)
and Cosey Fanni Tutti (guitar,cornet,vox) formed Chris and Cosey, and
now produce "electronic wallpaper music for insomniacs", as the LA Times
put it.  I like their stuff a lot, but you can't really listen to it as
foreground music.  Industrial Windham-Hill?

The other half, Genesis P-Orridge (vox,bass) and Peter Christopherson
(tapes), formed Psychic T.V.  I've never heard anything of theirs, but
from reports I hear and album covers I look at, they seem to be sticking
pretty close to the T.G. spirit.


[2] THE GUITAR IS NOT DEAD.  Hofmann asks "what about people getting new
sounds out of guitars?"  Right on.  Short, off-the-top-of-the-head list:
	* King Crimson (81-84 incarnation)
	* ..and Adrian Belew's work on Talkingheads' "Remain in Light"
	* ..and Robert Fripp's stuff in general
	* Cocteau Twins (Check out Robin Guthrie's early guitar sound,
		and the neat acoustic-guitar effects on "Victorialand")
	* Bauhaus (sass that hoopy Daniel Ash!)
	* Led Zeppelin ("Houses of the Holy" (the song) in particular
		has an amazing guitar sound)
	* Sonic Youth (whom I've heard less of than about)
More power to 'em all.  Now if we can only persuade the AOR sh*tmongers
to burn their Boston albums and drive stakes through their Marshall
amps!


[3] THE SYNTH IS NOT EVIL, EITHER.  More on this soon.

						--Peter Alfke
						  alfke@csvax.caltech.edu
"...cause I can play this here CZ101
 and I won't stop 'till I'm a star
 on Broadway..."

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Date: Tue, 20 May 86 19:44 CDT
From: Jeff Larson <larson@DRAGON>
Subject: Promos

Just what we need, a morality question.

How does everyone feel about promotional copies of records
that always seem to appear at record conventions and used
record stores.  I seem to have collected quite a few since
they are generally kept in good shape.
 
Is it OK to take advantage of a good deal or are we lining 
the pockets of unscrupulous DJ's at the expense of the artist ?

Jeff


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Date: Wed, 21 May 86 03:04:13 EDT
From: nessus (Doug Alan)
Subject: Looking for "The Big Sky"

So, I stuck a tape in the VCR before I went off for work today, hoping
I might catch "The Big Sky" on V66.  I don't really know why, since
the reception is so bad I can barely see anything anyway.  When I got
home, I put the tape in scan mode and within five minutes Kate
appeared!  They had a little special on Kate: they had an address you
could write to to win a free HoL album, they showed "Cloudbusting",
"Hounds of Love", and "The Man With The Child In His Eyes".  They
showed three seconds of "The Big Sky"....  Arghhhhhhhh!

Most of the rest of the six hours of video tape was pretty boring.
But I noticed they didn't show a single video more than once in that 6
hours.  I'm mildly impressed.  If this were Empty-V, I'm sure I would
have seen "Sledgehammer" and "When the Heart Rules the Mind" four
times each....

		"Looking out for the Big Big Time"

		 Doug

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Via:      UK.AC.SUSX.VAX2; 21 MAY 86 10:59:12 BST
Date:     21-MAY-1986 10:54:37
From: SSUD3%UK.AC.SUSSEX.VAX2@AC.UK


NEWS FLASH FROM ENGLAND:


I just got a postcard in the mail this morning from the
Kate Bush Club, reading as follows:


           KATE BUSH  -  The Big Sky

           (Special Single Mix)


        Limited Edition  7"  PICTURE DISC

     Featuring two stunning photographs of Kate

             AVAILABLE NOW!
           at all good record shops


       Catalogue number:  KBP4

               EMI



So all you love-hounds out there, keep an eye out for
it in your local import shop.


Hugh Maher

Brighton, E.Sussex, England



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-- 
It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how I keep from goin' under.

Greg Skinner (gregbo)
{decvax!genrad, allegra, gatech, ihnp4}!mit-eddie!gds
gds@eddie.mit.edu