🚀 go-pugleaf

Hi.  

With much discussions of Panasonic's (false ?) advertisements
regarding to their cordless phones, I decide to post this [for more
information, visit alt.radio.scanner "Not Secure: Panasonic 2.4GHz
GigaRange cordless phones"].    

There have been a lot of responses regarding to Panasonic's DSS Giga
phone.   You may be able to learn Panasonic's respective product by
visiting:

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/telephone/giga.htm.


The problem is that many posters verify Panasonic's advertised phone
is NOT using DSS.  


This is a quote from Panasonic:
	
	DSS-The technology that guards military secrets 
	can now guard yours. 
	While you may not be harboring any 
	"Top Secrets," there's plenty of information 
	you don't want leaked out, 
	such as your credit card number or your bank account. 

	That's why Panasonic 2.4 GHz GigaRange 
	phones have DSS--Digital Spread Spectrum technology. 	
	Originally developed 50 years ago for secure military 	
	communications, 
	DSS continually changes frequencies--
	making eavesdropping virtually impossible. 


The several persons in the newsgroup (and one Panasonic employee ?)
confirm that either a base or a handset unit uses 900 MHz which is in
@@@ ANALOG FM. @@@      

What does it mean ?  It means I can hear YOUR conversation no problem
with my cheap scanner.    Obviously it is NOT secure to transmit
credit card numbers and the frequency does NOT "continually" change
and it does NOT make "eavesdropping virtually impossible."


The quote again from Panasonic:  

	While ordinary cordless phones use only one 
	frequency band, GigaRange phones with 
	DSS technology, 
	use many different frequencies 
	within both the 2.4 GHz and the 900 MHz frequency bands. 
	As a result, they have an even greater range.*

According to tests conducted by several posters in the newsgroups,
GigaRange phone does NOT use DSS technology and does NOT use many
different frequencies in "BOTH" 2.4 GHz and the "900 MHz frequency
bands."


I personally have not tested this device.

Please use this for your information purpose only and if you have a
respective phone from panasonic and have a scanner, please post your
result in the newsgroups.


As far as Panasonic is concerned, I am sure they do not want to be
framed for no reason.  Therefore, they should make a clear statement
about the use of analog wave if they did use it.  If not, then
Panasonic must verify about the results obtained by several scanner
listeners and make necessary comments in the web site or in the user's
manual.      Leaving things unclear is making the situation even worse
for Panasonic (and customers as well).


The next following is some examples of the postings in
alt.radio.scanner and other related newsgroups:


From: "Charley S." <nospam123@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.consumers.experiences,misc.consumers.house,rec.radio.scanner,alt.radio.scanner,misc.consumers
Subject: Not Secure: Panasonic 2.4GHz GigaRange cordless phones

I just purchased a Panasonic GigaRange cordless phone, Model
KX-TG200-B.  It is advertised as a digital spread spectrum unit. 
According to the Pansonic website at 
http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/telephone/giga.htm 
"DSS continually changes frequencies--making eavesdropping virtually
impossible."

This is simply not true.  My scanner can easily hear the handset
transmissions in the 909-921 MHz band.  They are *not* digitally
encoded, they are *analog* FM voice.  The frequency does *not*
"continually change"; I listened for 5 minutes and there was no
frequency change.  Reception was clearly understandable.

I will be returning my GigaRange phone for refund; I do not want a
phone
that anyone with an inexpensive scanner can listen to!

---

From: "Robert H. Eisner" <rheisner@worldnet.att.net>

Paul Prior MD wrote:

> Can anyone verify this.  I will be returning my (just purchased)
> gigarange phone if it is true.  I discuss patient information on my
> phone and consider it inappropriate to have a phone that people can
> eavesdrop on....
> Paul Prior MD   pprior@earthlink.net     Don't Blame Me...

I just purchased one of these phones about 2 weeks ago and have
confirmed the same thing.  The 900 Mhz signal appears to be a
very wide analog type sigal and can clearly be heard when you
switch over to Wide FM.  The actual remote phone operated in the
2.4 Ghz range.

---

Paul Prior MD wrote:

> (Fredric J. Einstein) wrote:

>>I saw this phone in Best Buy and it does say "Digital Spread Spectrum"
>>on it.  Are you inferring that it is NOT a Spread Spectrum phone?

>That is exactly my complaint.  I bought this phone as I wanted a DSS
>phone with advanced batteries (it has the lithium batteries) ...
>Surprise (after they've got my money) and
>thanks only to the good folks of the internet 
> it is a scam and the
>damn thing can be heard with a cheap analog scanner.
>Somebody should sue Panasonic for false advertising for this one.  I
>for one will never buy another one of their products again based on
>this pathetic misrepresentation.
>--
>Paul Prior MD   pprior@earthlink.net     Don't Blame Me...

From: pprior@earthlink.net (Paul Prior MD)

On Wed, 16 Dec 1998 04:56:10 GMT, sheldon@visi.com (Steve Sheldon)
wrote:

>pprior@earthlink.net (Paul Prior MD) writes:
>
>>I'm not talking about national security issues - I don't think I need
>>128bit encryption.  But I do feel my conversations should not be able
>>to be picked up on a $50 scanner by Mr. Ed down the street.  DSS
>>should solve this problem and Panasonic clearly states in their
>>advertising that this phone is secure - which it obviously is NOT.
>
> I just went to Panasonic's web site and they make no claim that the phone
>is secure, just that the DSS deters eavesdropping.  Perhaps they say
>something different on the packaging?

The point has been made and verified by other posters that the
gigaphone can be eavesdropped by a plain old analog scanner.  Thus it
is NOT DSS.

---

From: "Robert H. Eisner" <rheisner@worldnet.att.net>

... I confirmed this also, but I think you're hearing the Base Unit 
frequency, not the remote.  The remote operates in the 2.4 Ghz
range.  The Base Unit operates in the 902-928 Mhz range.

Anyway, Base Unit appears to be operating on a very Wide Analog
signal.  It can be cleary heard when switching to Wide FM!


---

I just bought one of these too, if Panasonic says they are and they 
aren't, this is grounds for a huge lawsuit. I use mine for the bank
phone 
all the time and thought it was secure.
__**__
  **
Jim Dompier
http://www.islandshades.com

---
From: "Charley S." <nospam123@shotmail.com>

Yes, the handset is designed to transmit in the 909-921 MHz band; only
the base unit transmits in the 2.4 GHz band.

My handheld scanner can receive perfectly clear voice from the handset
at  least 50 to 70 feet away, far enough for any number of yahoos with
scanners to overhear credit card numbers, personal information, etc.
I
did not try to go farther away; I had heard enough.  The person on the
other end of the conversation can also be heard on the scanner, but
lower in volume.

The signal is simply analog FM.  Others can play with counters,
frequency analyzers, etc., but AFAIC, this phone has failed the
security
test.  Too bad, because the voice quality was decent.

To me, "digital" should mean digital.  Pulses, tones, beeps, but not
FM
analog.

---

From: sheldon@visi.com (Steve Sheldon)

>> If you read the advertisements about them, 2.4GHz is only used from base
>> to handset.  Standard 900Mhz transmission is used from the handset to the
>> base.

>It seems like you'd want it the other way.

 I'm not sure about that.  2.4GHz is microwave range, ya sure you want
a
microwave near your ear?

---

n jordan wrote:
> 
> Talked to Panasonic today. I asked for a technical person. He confirmed
> that the 2.4 gigahertz phone in question is part digital and part analog.
> He stated that no matter what they do, someone finds a way to intercept
> conversations. He suggested that anyone that has a concern post it to the
> Panasonic web site.

'No matter what they do ...'???  Uh, if you make a phone that
tranmsits analog on 900 Mhz OF COURSE SOMEONE WILL INTERCEPT IT
because you didn't do anything to stop it! Duh!  The techs can't
be that stupid. They know very well that casual eavsdropping can
be stopped by simply insuring that all transmissions between the
handset and base are digital. You don't even really need spread
spectrum for simple security but it is certainly a bonus.

---



______________________________________________________________________
I wish you a happy christmas at:  http://www.radiotelephone.net/merry_christmas/
M a s a t a k a  N o d a, Montr�al, Qu�bec, Canada.  N� d' ICQ: 24703041
Infinite Communications� (TM): Il y a un coeur�. Il y a un esprit�. Il y a une voie�.
�tudient @ d'Universit� McGill (environnement)
Indicatif d'appel de radioamateur: VA2QRU & VE7JPN & JP2CKG
Membre d'internationale aucun code Morse pour services radioamateur - NCI2014
C� : hugs@radiotelephone.net.PAS_DE_SPAM (SVP enlever/please remove .PAS_DE_SPAM)
URL: http://www.radiotelephone.net        /masataka.htm (moi !!)
   || 24L ----------------------------------------------------  06R ||
Pilote Avion Priv� (jour & nuit):  St-Hubert & Dorval INTL (dupuis 1998)
---:|| 24R ---------------------------------------------------  06L ||: